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mcphage 20 hours ago

[flagged]

chung8123 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Unfortunately I feel like we are just seeing the snap of these government agencies. They have been bending for a while. It will feel like 6 months but we have been on the path for a while and not one administration has decided to bite the bullet and turn course.

reactordev 19 hours ago | parent [-]

I was just saying this today. I’m originally from the DC bubble. It’s been bad for a LONG time. Entire companies designed to fight and win government contracts so that they can milk the government until retirement. SAIC comes to mind.

These agencies haven’t been able to do their actual jobs in ages. Trump is doing what he said he was going to do (unpopular as that is) and we’ll have to figure out how to build back better (or whatever that term was).

I don’t agree with anything he’s doing but I do see opportunities in it. If we can survive without these departments until then.

js8 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

While seeing opportunity in a crisis is a good coping mechanism, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to destroy first and rebuild from scratch. (It is however one of the core unjustified beliefs of free market fundamentalists.)

It actually seems to be true more generally, good coping mechanisms are not particularly efficient in the absence of crisis. Another example: People who lived through a dictatorship, which destroyed social trust and capital, learned to cope by distrusting state authorities. That's a coping mechanism that doesn't work well in the absence of dictate, a system that is open to democratic self-governance. You need people who are willing to apply more bold strategies to effectively run a democratic state.

reactordev 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Like I said, I don’t agree with his tactics. Burning the bridges isn’t smart.

I do think a lot of DC fat is coping mechanisms. The bureaucracy is so slow to respond to change, change that this community loves, and needs a redo. Reorg. Whatever.

I get why my opinion is so downvoted but the reality is the reality.

sneilan1 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sorry, this SAIC? https://www.saic.com/ Just curious which SAIC you are referring to.

reactordev 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Would you prefer Leidos?

stego-tech 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don’t give the buffoon too much credit, as a lot of these weaknesses were engineered starting around Reagan (with Carter and Nixon also shouldering some, but far less overall, blame). Neoliberalism and its “invisible hand of the free market” alliance with Laissez-Faire Capitalism all but ensured the demise of institutions and social safety nets in the name of maximum profit for the moneyed classes. We built a Golden Age atop the New Deal, and Capital threw it all away to return to the 20s, violent strikebreaking and all.

King-Aaron 19 hours ago | parent [-]

I see this argument of "oh it's been happening for a long time" getting thrown around a lot, and it feels like a really non-good-faith point of view that seems to ignore the administration directly targeting these institutions for destruction.

Yes, poor management is a big problem that could be seen as an intentional structural issue, but this is a totally different ball game that's being played right now.

18 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
nine_zeros 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is easy to complain and destroy. It is hard to build.

For a narcissistic hateful administration that wants easy votes, the destructive path is rational.

randcraw 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Before the wreckage this administration has created consumes us, that is. Like when our next round of influenza is especially bad but we've destroyed so much public health infrastructure that the US is the last to respond to the crisis, and the state authorities have to turn elsewhere for help -- to WHO or even to China -- to bail us out.

monero-xmr 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s easy to hand out money when you are not the one paying, and have no consequences for success or failure. Feeling justified and righteous is the icing on the cake

mcphage 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> you are not the one paying

We are, though.

> have no consequences for success or failure

Oh, the consequences for the failures of this administration will be felt by everyone, for decades.

sorcerer-mar 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

These types of oblique, semantically empty comments are so tiring. Bonhoeffer's theory of stupidity rings true: "one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with a person, but with slogans, catchwords and the like, that have taken possession of him."

What the actual fuck are you talking about "handing out money" as it pertains to this topic?

monero-xmr 18 hours ago | parent [-]

Government agencies that spend massive amounts of tax dollars while accomplishing nothing and being net-negative for society. Anyone who has worked for or dealt with the government for extended periods of time will clearly know how fucked it is

op00to 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Weird. I worked for and dealt with the government for extensive periods of time, namely cancer and basic biomedical research. We did fucking awesome things. Go hide in a lot cabin in the wilderness or something and leave the rest of us to our civilization. Don’t take us all down with you.

sorcerer-mar 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anyone who has worked in drug development knows how vital FDA is.

The FDA costs taxpayers less than $4 billion per year.

If FDA is a net negative, next time you need a medication you're aware you can go participate in a Phase I study, and get paid to take a cutting edge drug for it? Why bother looking at the stuff on the medicine shelf that costs you money?

Can you give us all an idea of your experience working with government, and especially FDA?

monero-xmr 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Should allow pharma to sell drugs to the market. Allow people to sue if they are harmed. Do not care about a government agency preventing access to new drugs. They can gatekeep government funds at best, limiting Medicaid / Medicare to those that want to pass their hoops

My experience is in selling tech to government. Disgusting and corrupt.

jcranmer 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The more-or-less unregulated drug industry that you envision is something that already exists: it's called "health supplements." And it's a disasters; there's been quite a few studies that show that many of the companies selling health supplements can't even be bothered to put in their claimed active ingredients.

This isn't some hypothetical "well, we haven't tried to see what it would look like without regulation;" this is something that is already in existence and whose effects can be measured today!

AdieuToLogic 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Should allow pharma to sell drugs to the market.

This was the case pre-FDA. IIRC, that is how heroin was sold in drug stores. See also OxyContin[0].

> Allow people to sue if they are harmed.

So you advocate a costly post-harm remediation instead of a preemptive solution provided by governmental regulations?

> Do not care about a government agency preventing access to new drugs.

See previous reference to heroin once being an over-the-counter product.

0 - https://apnews.com/article/purdue-pharma-sackler-settlement-...

terminalshort 17 hours ago | parent [-]

> So you advocate a costly post-harm remediation instead of a preemptive solution provided by governmental regulations

Absolutely. Such solutions tend to be much cheaper and more effective. It's how we deal with the vast majority of problems for a good reason.

If we sold oxycontin over the counter we would have much less of an overdose problem than we do. Would also take a lot of stress off our emergency medical care system which spends an inordinate amount of time just dealing with addicts looking for drugs.

It's a funny example to use to justify the current regulatory framework because oxycontin got approved by the very same.

AdieuToLogic 17 hours ago | parent [-]

>> So you advocate a costly post-harm remediation instead of a preemptive solution provided by governmental regulations

> Absolutely. Such solutions tend to be much cheaper and more effective.

This is not supported by any credible analysis I am aware of, as the cost of rectifying a problem post hoc has historically been far greater than preventing it in the first place.

> If we sold oxycontin over the counter we would have much less of an overdose problem than we do.

This assertion is demonstrably wrong and could easily be categorized as insulting to people struggling with OxyContin addiction.

monero-xmr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

People with opiate addiction have access to the cheapest and strongest narcotics ever available on the street. Unfortunately they are of uneven strength and cut with horrors that make their body shut down. I would much prefer they could just buy clean drugs from the pharma companies.

TFYS 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Insanity. Do you honestly believe the average person (probably a sick one at that) has the resources and time to fight a large pharmaceutical company in court? And do you really believe that during the time between releasing the drug and losing in court the faulty drug wouldn't make the company much more money than they'd have to pay as compensation? The amount of organization it would require to beat a large company with its resources would guarantee that most abuses would go unpunished and suffering would certainly increase compared to an environment with well functioning FDA.

monero-xmr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

All of that still happens even with the FDA approving drugs. Luckily we have class action process

TFYS 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Not to the same extent, and the solution to that is to improve the FDA, not to demolish it and let companies poison and fool people freely.

Class action is what I meant with the difficulty of organizing. To make a class action happen and win, the damage done must be massive enough to get enough people to notice it and take action, and must be easily and cheaply provable. A class action is not going to fund expensive scientific studies that prove their problem was caused by the company they're suing. Your solution would only prevent the absolute worst cases. Any damage that's rare, hard to notice or prove, small, long term, etc would not get compensated and would cost society much more than properly funding FDA.

const_cast 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Should allow pharma to sell drugs to the market. Allow people to sue if they are harmed.

This is a comical extreme vision of libertarian politics. Everything gets worse, lots of people die, but it's okay because we have a small principle of freedom. Yeah. Great.

If you're trying to persuade people you're doing a very shit job.

sorcerer-mar 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Tell me: how do you prove that a drug hurt you?

Spoiler alert: you cannot.

The reason clinical trials are so expensive and complicated is because it's extremely hard to isolate signal of "what is this drug doing to people."

So on what basis would you possibly sue a company?

As another commenter said, we have an entire industry of the form you desire: supplements. Go take them to treat your next illness so you can really experience the creme de la creme that FDA is apparently keeping from you. Good luck suing for lack of effectiveness or for any harms you encounter.

monero-xmr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Insurance companies will not cover ineffective drugs. Pharma will have to prove efficacy. Allow free people to spend their own money how they want

sorcerer-mar 8 hours ago | parent [-]

What incentive does an insurance company with an expected coverage period of 4 years have to prevent a drug with long term harm from reaching its patients?

What about drugs that people do not buy via insurance? Just have a free for all there?

Why wouldn't pharma just release the drug to the public at very low cost to use the unwitting public as its test subjects instead of running trials to satisfy insurance companies? If a bunch of people die then welp, you know not to pursue "insurance approval?"

Can't see how we could go wrong by making it very difficult to sell a working, expensive drug, and make it extremely cheap to sell a mass-market ineffective/unsafe drug...

terminalshort 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The actual budget of the FDA is $4 billion. The overly restrictive regulations it puts on drug development and manufacture of generic medication costs 10-100x that.

sjsdaiuasgdia 10 hours ago | parent [-]

"If you think safety is expensive, try an accident!"

mcphage 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Government agencies that spend massive amounts of tax dollars while accomplishing nothing and being net-negative for society.

I’ve spent my entire career working for wasteful companies who accomplish nothing and are net-negative for society. The government at least picks up my garbage every week.

monero-xmr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

The private company can fail. The government will only reform very very rarely, and do so kicking and screaming and shrieking like we see now

mcphage 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> The private company can fail.

Unfortunately, they don't fail often, and we've seen the government bailing companies out so they don't fail.

But in the end, it's a moot point—even when companies fail, they are replaced with companies that either are equally wasteful, or as the replacement companies grow, their wastefulness increases.

nine_zeros 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Government agencies that spend massive amounts of tax dollars while accomplishing nothing and being net-negative for society. Anyone who has worked for or dealt with the government for extended periods of time will clearly know how fucked it is

This is only true of republican governments. Republican-led governments are truly appalling in their spending, and wasteful tax cuts. Democrat governments are far far more efficient, effective, and work for the people.

An example of this is one beautiful bill which literally increased deficits while giving nothing of value to people but the biden-led inflation reduction act literally created new energy infrastructure without increasing deficit.

SV_BubbleTime 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> This is only true of republican governments. Republican-led governments are truly appalling in their spending, and wasteful tax cuts. Democrat governments are far far more efficient, effective, and work for the people.

A true believer, neat.

const_cast 14 hours ago | parent [-]

BBB is the most recent example of this. We cut spending across the board, shit on American, and in exchange we... raised the deficit by Trillions of dollars? What? How?

Republican fiscal policy.

monero-xmr 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Letting people keep more of the money they earned through productive work is how we increase wealth. Taxes are literally a friction on the economy - we remove funds from productive entities every time they transact, retarding economic activity. The funds then are redirected to a sclerotic and uncaring state, and then the productive people are shamed when they ask for less of it to be taken.

tsimionescu 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You know so little about how the world actually works that it's funny you even try to speak about it.

Society would literally cease to function if the government stopped providing the services that your "friction" funds. Roads, the court system, police, waste and water, defense - these barely scratch the surface of what the US government provides, and yet remove any one of them and it would be enough to bring down the entire economy.

monero-xmr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

The us government should only provide a system for contract resolution, police, and defense. I can’t think of a single other thing the government should do

nine_zeros 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The funds then are redirected to a sclerotic and uncaring state, and then the productive people are shamed when they ask for less of it to be taken.

In republican governments, yes this is real.

In democrat governments, the vast majority of taxes goes into productive issues such as education, transportation, and healthcare. Even the type of bills passed by democrats are friendly towards building a society.

Now, YOU may not want to pay for other's education, transportation, and healthcare. But a lot of people appreciate that access to high quality is not merely limited to the wealthy. This is why you'll see amazing companies in blue states vs red, you'll see amazing companies starting during blue federal governments vs red.

The data is very clear on what produces great outcomes for society. You might not want others to get a decent life but you need to admit your selfishness.

mcphage 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Letting people keep more of the money they earned through productive work is how we increase wealth.

This isn’t even remotely true.

umeshunni 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's how most oppressive regimes end. Sometimes faster.

sorcerer-mar 18 hours ago | parent [-]

What's oppressive about FDA? Be specific.

andrewflnr 18 hours ago | parent [-]

They obviously weren't referring "specifically" to the FDA at that point.

sorcerer-mar 9 hours ago | parent [-]

It seems to me they were referring to FDA as a member among other "oppressive regimes" that fail in this way.

andrewflnr 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

The FDA didn't take 250 years to build up.