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McAlpine5892 9 hours ago

> It's that they believe they have a religious duty to destroy the state of Israel.

And the US is full of Christo-fascists who believe they have a religious duty to "defend" Israel by any means necessary.

It absolutely blows my mind that in this day and age people are taking sides on a religious war. Stay out. Stay far out. There is no winning. There is no stopping the conflict. Every side has an ordained right to blow the others off the face of the planet. The only thing to see is human atrocities as far as the eye in the name of <your god of choice>.

> There's a state ... [that has] ... the facilities necessary to enrich weapons grade Uranium

Do they? It's oft repeated. But I vaguely remember this country being sold on an Iraq invasion due to nukes. Nukes that never existed and never were close to existing. This wasn't a simple miscalculation. The nukes were entirely and knowingly fictional. And that's just one example of a bullshit made-up reason this nation has started a war to waste lives.

How do you think Palestinians sleep at night? With the threat of Israel, funded by the largest military in the world, looming over them every night?

Why should I believe my country today? Why is today the day of all days that the truth is finally being told? Why is today the day that god is real and I should jump in on the bloodshed?

Your masters are lying to you, to their benefit. They didn't wake up today and decide to be honest.

GlacierFox 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

_How do you think Palestinians sleep at night? With the threat of Israel, funded by the largest military in the world, looming over them every night?_

Probably pretty badly now after squandering decades on building tunnels, hiding weapons and generally being a backwards fundamentalist cultish death camp. It's a mini Iran, and just as hateful. There's a reasom there's a massive security wall along the Egyptian border. They know what's up.

imperfect_blue 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> It's that they believe they have a religious duty to destroy the state of Israel.

> And the US is full of Christo-fascists who believe they have a religious duty to "defend" Israel by any means necessary.

How do you even begin to equivocate this? One wants to destroy a country, one wants to protect it from destruction.

> How do you think Palestinians sleep at night? With the threat of Israel, funded by the largest military in the world, looming over them every night?

Israel has never actually wanted to end the lives of every Palestinian - and they've had ample capacity to do. The reverse can't be said to be true. If there's a button that the Iraqi or Palestinian leadership that can press that would wipe out the state of Israel and everyone in it, do you think that they won't press it as fast as they can?

oa335 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Israel has never actually wanted to end the lives of every Palestinian

They clearly and openly state that they want to force Palestinians off of their land and are using violence towards that end.

If there were a button to get rid of Palestinians, Israelis would “hit it twice”.

https://youtu.be/BkP78hyLl4w

samjones33 an hour ago | parent [-]

That is two random youtubers.

You know better than to listen to rants on line... I hope!

LtWorf 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Israel has never actually wanted to end the lives of every Palestinian

Uh? So can you explain the genocide?

samjones33 an hour ago | parent [-]

Can you explain a genocide in Gaza or the West Bank both of which have growing Palestinian populations even during wartime?

(If you correct for the 100K+ who left Gaza before Egypt closed its border in 2024)

LtWorf an hour ago | parent [-]

Inventing is explaining now? Ah…

lokimedes 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Those with the spirit to strike, will always dominate those with a mind to moderate.

KnightSaysNi 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Every side has an ordained right to blow the others off the face of the planet.

What? Israel is 2000 Kms away from Iran, and would want nothing do to with them if not for Iran's "Death to Israel" slogan and policy...

> Do they?

The IAEA declared Iran in breach of its non-proliferation obligations, hardly a "bullshit made-up excuse"

ngcazz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

None of what is going on in the Middle East is a "religious war" as such. That's a thought-terminating cliche that you're putting in practice pretty clearly here.

adastra22 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East. Support for Israel extends beyond religious justifications.

McAlpine5892 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's not about democracy. If it were, we wouldn't have overthrown countless democratically elected leaders throughout South America during the 20th Century.

Our elected leaders constantly attempt to expand their own power. To maximally punish whistleblowers. Our election system is ran by a duopoly who exerts extreme power over those voicing alternative views and opinions.

About democracy, it is not.

Let's say it was though. What gives us the right to blow other countries off the face of the planet? Are we somehow so much better than everyone else because we believe we're democratic? We don't even rank in the top 10 most democratic countries. We throw more people in jail than China. Per capita AND total overall. We throw more kids in jail than any other first world country [0].

Surely, democracy does not automagically lend to treating people fairly. We have enough problems in our own damn democracy to worry about. Crazy to be starting wars to "help" someone who never asked for it. Forcing violence upon those who never consented is absolutely abhorrent.

[0] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/afric...

oliwarner 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Whose fault is that? The US and Russia have propped and warred every angle to extract as much oil as possible. The instability maintains a heavy flow of refugees into Europe, destabilising the freedoms they have there and pushing the politics further right.

The sudden switch yesterday from "they can't make nukes" to "they're a fortnight away from ICBMs" felt a little too reminiscent of Iraq twenty years ago.

If we want a stable Middle East, we have to stop bombing the shit out of it, and invest. Negotiate fairly for resources. Offer them a future. And demand Israel stop committing war crimes.

eptcyka 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wonder if the _negotiate fairly_ option is viable after countless generations have been bombed.

oliwarner 8 hours ago | parent [-]

We either try, or resign to slowly killing each other until one does figure out how to wipe the other out forever.

Forced separation only deepens the hatred.

simonh 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It can be simultaneously true that Iran is sitting on a huge pike of precursor materials for nuclear weapons, and is not currently actually making bombs. Last week she was emphasising the latter, now she’s emphasising the former. Disingenuous? Sure.

Trump and his people are children in the back of a car that found mummy’s gun in her purse. They have no idea what they are doing. I understand what Israel is doing but the US administration are clueless and rudderless.

throwaway7839 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Israel is the only country with tiered citizenship.

It is the only country that has constitutional preference for an ethnic group instead of equality of all subjects/citizens.

It is also the only country with automatic citizenship based on religion.

It is also the only country with nuclear weapons but not part of NPT. Even North Korea is a member of NPT.

The myth of Democracy is just that, a myth. It doesn’t work anymore.

samjones33 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

- There is only one Israeli citizenship. Jews have it. Israeli Arab Muslims have it. Israeli Arab Christians have it. Druze have it. It's the same.

Is there discrimination, in all directions? Yup. The world is a tribal place.

But you should move on from that "tiered" thing. I live here. I have been doing a project with Arabs for the last two weeks. We have lunch together most days. Move on.

- Constitution -- You clearly have not read the constitutions of Syria, Saudi Arabia, or many other countries. Ethnic groups are all over the identities of most of the world's countries.

- Automatic citizenship - How narrow do you define this? African Americans can go to Liberia and other countries of Africa. Until just twenty years ago or so anyone with a German grandparent could automatically get German citizenship. If you are Cuban you can get American citizenship. Are you thinking this through?

- NPT, I am not sure anyone cares, but this is very different than your other topics.

packetlost 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The myth of Democracy is just that, a myth. It doesn’t work anymore.

That is a very strong claim that needs very strong evidence.

throwaway97894 7 hours ago | parent [-]

You have been provided with a list of items that undermines the claim of democracy, the evidence is also pretty strong. What else do you want?

adastra22 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The 18% of Israeli citizens that are Muslim are 100% equal to their Jewish brethren under the law. There is no tiered citizenship.

chgs 8 hours ago | parent [-]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/supreme-court-rejects-israeli-...

Looks theocratic to me

adastra22 8 hours ago | parent [-]

I don’t think you understand what you linked to. That is about government census forms that track ethnicity, same as any other country. Nationality here doesn’t mean citizenship, but rather something closer to “tribe.”

Some well meaning citizens said “I want to check Israeli rather than Jew, Druze, Arab, etc.” Except Israeli is not a nationality in this sense. Nor is Jewish, on this form, a religious identification. It is a way of tracking, for census reasons, something closer to ethnicity. Not for nefarious purposes, but just to track demographics.

throwaway97894 7 hours ago | parent [-]

That is a very dishonest interpretation not only because the national registry is not a mere question of census but of identity, but because the Supreme Court clearly outlines that it in black and white that it is about the question of Jewish supremacy.

from the article:

> the court explained that doing so would have “weighty implications” on the State of Israel and could pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people.

dreghgh 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's only 3 problems with this old claim.

1. You have to define 'Israel' quite carefully to make it work. Palestinians in East Jerusalem cannot vote in Israeli elections. Is East Jerusalem part of Israel or not?

2. There are several other democracies in the Middle East, for example Iraq and Lebanon.

3. Some of the countries which aren't democratic, would be democratic, except that representative governments were overthrown by the United States, in part to enforce cooperation with Israel, against the wishes of most of the people in the country. For example, Egypt.

samjones33 an hour ago | parent [-]

East Jerusalem is ... not a nut anyone here is going to crack.

What do those folks want for themselves? Be part of the Palestinian Authority? (Not the ones I have been doing a remodel with.) Make them part of Jordan?

Jerusalem is disputed territory. That makes it an uncomfortable mess, for more or less everyone.

The region needs more efforts toward peace, and less black and white, good/bad labeling.

East Jerusalemites are in limbo waiting for peace.

It's Jerusalem. It's a strange place.

CalChris 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Iran was democratic … until we overthrew them.

hopelite 9 hours ago | parent [-]

We, the British or the Americans, or those who control both?

hopelite 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You seem to believe “democracy” is some kind of magic spell or something? This “democracy” just perpetrated and are continuing to perpetrate the worst kind of wanton and sadistic genocide in full view of the world and are doing it in high definition and with impunity. America is supposedly also a democracy and we just in fact bombed a place objectively without any provocation, in violation of our own supreme law, and being utterly counter to American interests, because an alien and foreign interest group has a stranglehold on America.

Democracy is not some magic word that justifies things

alfiedotwtf 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Iran used to be a democracy in the Middle East until the US got involved

9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
reillyse 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A shining beacon of democracy.

compiler_queen 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Support for Israel extends beyond religious justifications

Yes, it extends that support to cover apartheid colonial occupation, more-than-likely genocide by all the accepted definitions, and the usual smattering of targeting civilians, executing paramedics in marked ambulances and ethic cleansing.

Hikikomori 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bad hasbara.

wun0ne 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Israel, the democratic country whose prime minister appears to be deliberately prolonging the current conflict in Gaza and starting a new war with Iran to avoid facing corruption charges?

LtWorf 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Israel has elections. So does Russia. Is Russia a democracy?

fluorinerocket 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I could really care less what theit form of government is

Tylkwvld 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[dead]

petre 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> starting a new war with Iran

Hamas has started in on the 7th of october 2023, effectively rolling back years of negotiations done by Yasser Arafat. Where do you think they've got the weapons from? Netanyahu is no better, but they offered him the perfect motive for a response.

dreghgh 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> Where do you think they've got the weapons from?

Ultimately, from the United States taxpayer. Who supply the Egyptian military government, who turn a small proportion over to the Islamists to keep them from too much rabble-rousing. Who smuggle them to Hamas.

Both Qatar and Iran supply money and other forms of support to Hamas. But no RPG makes it into Gaza (across a shorter than 10 mile border) without the Egyptian military sort of knowing about it.

Avshalom 7 hours ago | parent [-]

And of course one of the reasons Qatar supplied them is because Netanyahu specifically asked them to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

petre 6 hours ago | parent [-]

So Hamas used the Quatari funds for kids' food and medical supplies to buy and manufacture weapons. How does that change anything?

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/19/hamas-used-iranian-p...