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| ▲ | McAlpine5892 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's not about democracy. If it were, we wouldn't have overthrown countless democratically elected leaders throughout South America during the 20th Century. Our elected leaders constantly attempt to expand their own power. To maximally punish whistleblowers. Our election system is ran by a duopoly who exerts extreme power over those voicing alternative views and opinions. About democracy, it is not. Let's say it was though. What gives us the right to blow other countries off the face of the planet? Are we somehow so much better than everyone else because we believe we're democratic? We don't even rank in the top 10 most democratic countries. We throw more people in jail than China. Per capita AND total overall. We throw more kids in jail than any other first world country [0]. Surely, democracy does not automagically lend to treating people fairly. We have enough problems in our own damn democracy to worry about. Crazy to be starting wars to "help" someone who never asked for it. Forcing violence upon those who never consented is absolutely abhorrent. [0] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/afric... |
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| ▲ | oliwarner 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Whose fault is that? The US and Russia have propped and warred every angle to extract as much oil as possible. The instability maintains a heavy flow of refugees into Europe, destabilising the freedoms they have there and pushing the politics further right. The sudden switch yesterday from "they can't make nukes" to "they're a fortnight away from ICBMs" felt a little too reminiscent of Iraq twenty years ago. If we want a stable Middle East, we have to stop bombing the shit out of it, and invest. Negotiate fairly for resources. Offer them a future. And demand Israel stop committing war crimes. |
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| ▲ | eptcyka 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wonder if the _negotiate fairly_ option is viable after countless generations have been bombed. | | |
| ▲ | oliwarner 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | We either try, or resign to slowly killing each other until one does figure out how to wipe the other out forever. Forced separation only deepens the hatred. |
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| ▲ | simonh 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It can be simultaneously true that Iran is sitting on a huge pike of precursor materials for nuclear weapons, and is not currently actually making bombs. Last week she was emphasising the latter, now she’s emphasising the former. Disingenuous? Sure. Trump and his people are children in the back of a car that found mummy’s gun in her purse. They have no idea what they are doing. I understand what Israel is doing but the US administration are clueless and rudderless. |
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| ▲ | throwaway7839 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Israel is the only country with tiered citizenship. It is the only country that has constitutional preference for an ethnic group instead of equality of all subjects/citizens. It is also the only country with automatic citizenship based on religion. It is also the only country with nuclear weapons but not part of NPT. Even North Korea is a member of NPT. The myth of Democracy is just that, a myth. It doesn’t work anymore. |
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| ▲ | samjones33 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | - There is only one Israeli citizenship. Jews have it. Israeli Arab Muslims have it. Israeli Arab Christians have it. Druze have it. It's the same. Is there discrimination, in all directions? Yup. The world is a tribal place. But you should move on from that "tiered" thing. I live here. I have been doing a project with Arabs for the last two weeks. We have lunch together most days. Move on. - Constitution -- You clearly have not read the constitutions of Syria, Saudi Arabia, or many other countries. Ethnic groups are all over the identities of most of the world's countries. - Automatic citizenship - How narrow do you define this? African Americans can go to Liberia and other countries of Africa. Until just twenty years ago or so anyone with a German grandparent could automatically get German citizenship. If you are Cuban you can get American citizenship. Are you thinking this through? - NPT, I am not sure anyone cares, but this is very different than your other topics. | |
| ▲ | adastra22 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The 18% of Israeli citizens that are Muslim are 100% equal to their Jewish brethren under the law. There is no tiered citizenship. | | |
| ▲ | chgs 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | https://www.timesofisrael.com/supreme-court-rejects-israeli-... Looks theocratic to me | | |
| ▲ | adastra22 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don’t think you understand what you linked to. That is about government census forms that track ethnicity, same as any other country. Nationality here doesn’t mean citizenship, but rather something closer to “tribe.” Some well meaning citizens said “I want to check Israeli rather than Jew, Druze, Arab, etc.” Except Israeli is not a nationality in this sense. Nor is Jewish, on this form, a religious identification. It is a way of tracking, for census reasons, something closer to ethnicity. Not for nefarious purposes, but just to track demographics. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway97894 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | That is a very dishonest interpretation not only because the national registry is not a mere question of census but of identity, but because the Supreme Court clearly outlines that it in black and white that it is about the question of Jewish supremacy. from the article: > the court explained that doing so would have “weighty implications” on the State of Israel and could pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people. |
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| ▲ | packetlost 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The myth of Democracy is just that, a myth. It doesn’t work anymore. That is a very strong claim that needs very strong evidence. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway97894 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | You have been provided with a list of items that undermines the claim of democracy, the evidence is also pretty strong. What else do you want? |
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| ▲ | dreghgh 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There's only 3 problems with this old claim. 1. You have to define 'Israel' quite carefully to make it work. Palestinians in East Jerusalem cannot vote in Israeli elections. Is East Jerusalem part of Israel or not? 2. There are several other democracies in the Middle East, for example Iraq and Lebanon. 3. Some of the countries which aren't democratic, would be democratic, except that representative governments were overthrown by the United States, in part to enforce cooperation with Israel, against the wishes of most of the people in the country. For example, Egypt. |
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| ▲ | samjones33 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | East Jerusalem is ... not a nut anyone here is going to crack. What do those folks want for themselves? Be part of the Palestinian Authority? (Not the ones I have been doing a remodel with.) Make them part of Jordan? Jerusalem is disputed territory. That makes it an uncomfortable mess, for more or less everyone. The region needs more efforts toward peace, and less black and white, good/bad labeling. East Jerusalemites are in limbo waiting for peace. It's Jerusalem. It's a strange place. |
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| ▲ | CalChris 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Iran was democratic … until we overthrew them. |
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| ▲ | hopelite 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You seem to believe “democracy” is some kind of magic spell or something? This “democracy” just perpetrated and are continuing to perpetrate the worst kind of wanton and sadistic genocide in full view of the world and are doing it in high definition and with impunity. America is supposedly also a democracy and we just in fact bombed a place objectively without any provocation, in violation of our own supreme law, and being utterly counter to American interests, because an alien and foreign interest group has a stranglehold on America. Democracy is not some magic word that justifies things |
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| ▲ | alfiedotwtf 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Iran used to be a democracy in the Middle East until the US got involved |
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| ▲ | 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | reillyse 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A shining beacon of democracy. |
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| ▲ | compiler_queen 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Support for Israel extends beyond religious justifications Yes, it extends that support to cover apartheid colonial occupation, more-than-likely genocide by all the accepted definitions, and the usual smattering of targeting civilians, executing paramedics in marked ambulances and ethic cleansing. |
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| ▲ | wun0ne 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Israel, the democratic country whose prime minister appears to be deliberately prolonging the current conflict in Gaza and starting a new war with Iran to avoid facing corruption charges? |
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| ▲ | Hikikomori 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Bad hasbara. |
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| ▲ | LtWorf 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Israel has elections. So does Russia. Is Russia a democracy? |
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| ▲ | fluorinerocket 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I could really care less what theit form of government is |
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| ▲ | Tylkwvld 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | petre 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > starting a new war with Iran Hamas has started in on the 7th of october 2023, effectively rolling back years of negotiations done by Yasser Arafat. Where do you think they've got the weapons from? Netanyahu is no better, but they offered him the perfect motive for a response. | | |
| ▲ | dreghgh 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Where do you think they've got the weapons from? Ultimately, from the United States taxpayer. Who supply the Egyptian military government, who turn a small proportion over to the Islamists to keep them from too much rabble-rousing. Who smuggle them to Hamas. Both Qatar and Iran supply money and other forms of support to Hamas. But no RPG makes it into Gaza (across a shorter than 10 mile border) without the Egyptian military sort of knowing about it. | | |
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