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neves 17 hours ago

Remember that Israel had more nuclear bombs than China and never signed any international as tmy treaty.

hollerith 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

China is estimated to have approximately 600 nuclear warheads. China is rapidly expanding and modernizing its nuclear arsenal and is projected to reach at least 1,000 operational warheads by 2030.

Israel is widely believed to possess around 90 nuclear warheads.

invalidname 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Israel never acknowledged that. It is claimed that the US president at the time demanded that Israel kept this a secret to avoid embarrassment to the US.

Iran repeatedly calls for death to Israel and the USA. Israel never did that.

Narretz 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Israel doesn't talk about destroying Gaza, it just does it.

im3w1l 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They absolutely do talk about it. Maybe you should ask yourself why you never heard about it though.

invalidname 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Israel doesn't talk about destroying Gaza, it just does it.

That's clever. Virtue signaling 101. And when things turn worse you can pat yourself on the back claiming that your virtue was intact and you were on the "right side of history". You can pretend that none of the violence is related to the side you chose.

The fact is that western ignorance is deeply at fault for the violence in Gaza. Probably more so than many others. Why?

There are three sides to this conflict:

* Moderate people - these are moderate Israelis and Palestinians. These are by far the majority. They might not agree on all the details or even on a Palestinian state, but they don't want violence and will try to avoid it when possible.

* Zero sum players - e.g. Hamas and Israelis who commit crimes e.g. deep settlements, war crimes etc. Some of them are sadly even in the Israeli government now. They've gained strength in Israel thanks to Hamas violence and vice versa. They feed each other. For every Hamas terrorist plot, the Israeli extremists build their base further and commit their own atrocities which result in Hamas gaining traction.

* Chaos actors - This is where Iran is. Some chaos actors don't care who wins and in some cases they choose a side. This is also where you reside. It is not a good place to be in.

Now you might have the knee jerk reaction. You think you're one of the "good guys", but you're not. You picked a side and you throw the blame on Israel while ignoring the legitimate facts Israel has in waging war against a zero-sum player (Hamas).

By blaming Israel for the destruction in Gaza you essentially tell Hamas: no harm no foul. Hamas hears you loud and clear. They can sacrifice all the Palestinian lives, starve them, use children and civilians as cannon fodder. As far as many in the west are concerned, Israel is the only one to blame. That removes their incentive to surrender and encourages them to escalate the violence.

The way they see it is that this encourages hostility which will keep the war going forever. They think that it will create a situation in which Israel will lose western support and will collapse as a result. The problem with this logic is that if Israel loses western support it will likely shift to the extreme right-wing and in that situation the Palestinians would be in serious trouble.

Want proof?

Go to a pro-Palestine rally carrying both a Palestinian flag and an Israeli flag to support co-existence which is supposed to be their goal. It isn't. Try wearing a yellow ribbon in such a rally to encourage the return of innocent civilians from Gaza. Same thing. These are not pro-Palestine rallies, they are anti-Israel rallies. Is it any surprise that Israel is becoming more extreme?

ExoticPearTree 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Iran repeatedly calls for death to Israel and the USA. Israel never did that.

Calling for it and being actually able to do it are two very different things.

It is similar to swearing at someone "Fuck you". It doesn't mean you're actually able and willing to.

invalidname 7 hours ago | parent [-]

So based on your logic we should just let them gain that ability and see what happens?

> It is similar to swearing at someone "Fuck you". It doesn't mean you're actually able and willing to.

Since they conducted decades of terrorism against Israel the USA and our allies a more apt example would be a person who repeatedly stabbed our friends is trying to get a bomb that could kill us all.

It's amazing to me how people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people who literally led terrorist attacks against their country. To people who would stone gay people and punish women for the crime of rape. But won't give a similar benefit of doubt to the people opposing them. Who won't consider that, maybe, just maybe, the stuff you read on the internet isn't the whole truth.

ExoticPearTree 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Since they conducted decades of terrorism against Israel the USA and our allies a more apt example would be a person who repeatedly stabbed our friends is trying to get a bomb that could kill us all.

I'm going to play a childish game with you: who started it first?

> Who won't consider that, maybe, just maybe, the stuff you read on the internet isn't the whole truth.

Are you saying people on the internet lie?

invalidname 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> I'm going to play a childish game with you: who started it first?

You can say that the CIA. Not Israel. But again that's a child's game just like you said.

How many Jews conducted suicide bombings in Germany after the holocaust?

We moved on, I can't say forgive and forget but we go to Germany and Austria. We talk and we live.

> Are you saying people on the internet lie?

Yep. And exaggerate and simplify the wrong things.