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svat 16 hours ago

Loved the fact that this post didn't go where I expected it to (or at least, didn't remain there). That a book like this probably wouldn't be published today, or would be less popular today, is a point that has been made many times by many people, about many different books, TV shows, jokes, etc. But the author actually moves on from there; the observation is that even in his own opinion, the same joke isn't funny today — in fact, the equivalent thing being done today just looks “grubby”.

So it's something deeper than the usual “political correctness” debate: the question really is, what is it about the world today that trumps the hallowed British traditions of celebrating failure, of moaning, of affectionate self-mockery? Why isn't the joke funny any more, or why doesn't the mocking seem affectionate?

(He points at the malaise that exists today—it was only funny when there was some hope—but I'm not sure that's the only answer…)

karlgkk 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Often when someone, especially a comedian, complains about “political correctness”, what they actually mean is: nobody is laughing at the same joke I told 20 years ago

Sensibilities change. The sense of what is and isn’t punching down changes. Even the appetite for punching down changes.

People who whine about “PC” always pretend like it’s the death of comedy or speech or whatever, and yet… there are younger people building great careers!

And yes, there is a real worrying erosion of free speech - but 98% these people could keep saying exactly what they’ve been saying - they’re just not getting the laughs they think they’re entitled to.

vanviegen 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Sensibilities change. The sense of what is and isn’t punching down changes. Even the appetite for punching down changes.

Yes, and the way it changes tells us something about our society, which I believe this article is trying to address.

tempaway4738438 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Read the article, its much more interesting and reflective that that

Chris2048 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Sensibilities change

If people are literally calling the police, they aren't changing, they are being suppressed/punished.

> they’re just not getting the laughs they think they’re entitled to

Why are the comedians 'entitled' rather than the people who go to their show and complain?

globalise83 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the difference is between, let's say, Ricky Gervais making a joke about a little boy with cancer, and Ricky Gervais making a joke about THAT little boy with cancer right there in Seat 7G. Everyone now knows these crap towns are dying.

Terr_ 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The same phenomenon exists when people talk about the movie Blazing Saddles.

It's transgressive content worked because it was satirizing "wholesome" Wild West shows, holding up a funhouse mirror to their less-obvious absurdities and racist aspects. It was so successful, its targets don't exist anymore.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jzMFoNZeZm0

eleveriven 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Humor is as much about context as content

tempaeay4747274 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a good question..it just occurred to me that perhaps its because its so much easier for the people who would be the target of the joke to answer back now?

Social media gives the possibility of instant reply, whereas if you publish a book in 2003 called 'crap towns' how can the so-called chavs answer back? Publish their own book? Write to the local paper?

So its a side effect of how we can all hear each other better now (for better or for worse)

8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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casey2 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It went straight into the self-flagellation territory I knew I’d get from a British author. It makes perfect sense that he would change his opinion to naive structuralism cause that's what's politically popular in the UK right now.

top1bobby 13 hours ago | parent [-]

I heard overwrought reductionism is the new thing.

necovek 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I though I had a decent command of English language, even if I am not a native speaker, but I have no ide what is "naive structuralism" or "overwrought reductionism" in this context.

Would any of you care to elaborate? I am serious, I am not familiar much with the UK political scene so can't tie these normal sounding phrases to anything, and would honestly appreciate some help.