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I agree 100%. It's exhausting fighting against antisemitic bias, and it feels like it's everywhere these days. My problem with Ed Martin is that what he is doing is clearly wrong. Hannah Arendt wrote a book about people like him.

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ummonk 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

At a time when students are having their visas revoked merely for writing Op-Eds critical of Israel, it's rather ridiculous to see the pro-Israel side acting like you're the ones being persecuted everywhere.

	▲	bawolff 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Since when do two wrongs make a right?

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emacsen 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The fact that my comment is -2 on HN is a great example of the problem.

I'm working on a solution to the effects of this isolation, but it's not ready for a big announcement.

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giraffe_lady 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Could one of you point me to antisemitic bias on wikipedia just so I have a concrete example at hand?

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emacsen 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation, such as that Zionism is the belief that Arabs needs to be destroyed. That is like saying the Civil Rights movement in the US was about killing white people.

They also position things in such a way that implies antisemitic things, such as saying that Zionism is only 200 years old, or discussing the Israel wars only or primarily through an Arab lens.

These biases around Jewish topics are small individually but large in aggregate, especially in how they present Jews and Jewish topics.

Multiple Jewish and civil rights organizations have done a more comprehensive job at discussing this, even organizations who don't usually agree on things. While they talk about "anti-Israel bias" Wikipedia articles on or mentioning Zionism (80% of Jews are Zionist) are IMHO just as, if not more damaging, and demonstrate the issue.

Most importantly though, talk to the Jews in your life about this. They will tell you.

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entrie...

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563

https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-edit...

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...

https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipe...

https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...

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Braxton1980 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation,

Your first statement is a sweeping generalization that you can't prove

	▲	bawolff 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I don't know if that statement is true or not, but it certainly seems like a specific enough statement that could be proved or disproved given enough effort.

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giraffe_lady 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Most of the jews I know are through anti-genocide activism and they have a different view of this. I wanted to check because it is important to me that I not engage in antisemitism. Thanks for the info.

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emacsen 15 hours ago | parent [-]

The idea of contrasting what I said with being "anti-genocide" implies that people who disagree with you are "pro-genocide".

Once one believes that those who disagree with them are "pro-genocide", then they can easily dismiss anything the other has to say say or any view they have, since they're functionally dehumanized.

I would ask that, if you can, try to consider that there are nuances, and that using triggering language does not bring understanding, it only amplifies conflict.

That said, this conversation has been too difficult for me, and I'm not going to engage with you on it further.

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43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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hayst4ck 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Once one believes that those who disagree with them are "pro-genocide", then they can easily dismiss anything the other has to say say or any view they have, since they're functionally dehumanized.

I would really like you to read this back to yourself and think about it deeply, really deeply.

	▲	an hour ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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giraffe_lady 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No I mean literally we are part of an organization focused on preventing and ending genocide broadly. Israel-palestine is one of them but there are several others ongoing and several more that may escalate into genocide in the next few months or years. I do see why you have a hard time with wikipedia.

	▲	12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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moshegramovsky 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...

Read it for yourself.

	▲	intermerda 14 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I tried giving it a shot. It starts with an "executive summary", followed by an intro to how Wikipedia works. The very first link to any concrete evidence is by a guy who has a page on PragerU with gems like "Russian collusion hoax" and how the "mainstream media" is "fake news". It's a pretty simple case of Wittgenstein's ruler for me. It tells me more about ADL as an org than the content.
	▲	hackandthink 13 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		The analysis there is not convincing. It is obvious that Wikipedia admins communicate with each other. The fact that Aljazeera is referenced is also okay. In fact, this is not the official Israeli narrative, it seems rather trustworthy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...
	▲	Braxton1980 13 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Instead of posting another person's argument that contains your source can you be more specific? This is like citing an entire book to prove a point.
	▲	deeThrow94 10 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		The ADL destroyed any credibility they had worked to build when they started conflating criticism of israel with antisemitism.
	▲	pesus 14 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I'm not sure the organization that defended Musk's Nazi salute is a reliable source on antisemitism.