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> I've doubtless taken more trouble than I needed to, rebutting what could have been a GPT-extruded troll of an argument, but it was fun :)

Yet failed to address even one of my contentions, which if I had to summarise them for you again are:

- Music of the 20th century falls short of music of the 19th century, and it's not particularly close.

- Having no boundaries and standards does not make for better art.

- Bowie's music cannot convey meaning or wonder because he did not believe there is any meaningful or wonderful in the universe other than him, even if he held this view "humbly".

- Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy.

(quoted) The last Stoics, like Marcus Aurelius, were exactly the people who did believe in the Inner Light. Their dignity, their weariness, their sad external care for others, their incurable internal care for themselves, were all due to the Inner Light, and existed only by that dismal illumination. Notice that Marcus Aurelius insists, as such introspective moralists always do, upon small things done or undone; it is because he has not hate or love enough to make a moral revolution. He gets up early in the morning, just as our own aristocrats living the Simple Life get up early in the morning; because such altruism is much easier than stopping the games of the amphitheatre or giving the English people back their land. Marcus Aurelius is the most intolerable of human types. He is an unselfish egoist. An unselfish egoist is a man who has pride without the excuse of passion. Of all conceivable forms of enlightenment the worst is what these people call the Inner Light. Of all horrible religions the most horrible is the worship of the god within. Any one who knows any body knows how it would work; any one who knows any one from the Higher Thought Centre knows how it does work. That Jones shall worship the god within him turns out ultimately to mean that Jones shall worship Jones. Let Jones worship the sun or moon, anything rather than the Inner Light; let Jones worship cats or crocodiles, if he can find any in his street, but not the god within. Christianity came into the world firstly in order to assert with violence that a man had not only to look inwards, but to look outwards, to behold with astonishment and enthusiasm a divine company and a divine captain. The only fun of being a Christian was that a man was not left alone with the Inner Light, but definitely recognized an outer light, fair as the sun, clear as the moon, terrible as an army with banners.

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ben_w 3 days ago | parent [-]

> - Bowie could not write joyful music because his world view made it impossible for him to have joy.

> [Marcus Aurelius, Christianity, Inner Light stuff]

Been a while since I've seen someone suggest an outwardly healthy adult might be incapable of one of the standard human emotions.

Anhedonia is a thing, but it's rare and associated with clinical depression.

Given your choice of quote, would it be fair to suggest that you believe that only Christians can truly experience joy?

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flanked-evergl 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don't think you can be joyful if you think the universe means nothing, or at least nothing but what you yourself impose on it.

If we are to be truly joyful, we must believe that there is some eternal joy in the nature of things. Bowie did not believe this.

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ben_w 3 days ago | parent [-]

I can't tell if that's "yes because …" or "no actually I mean …"; but in either case it is droll to witness someone disregarding a human artist the way many disregard AI.

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flanked-evergl 3 days ago | parent [-]

Bowie disregarded everything but himself. It's not difficult to disregard this outlook on the world, because it is not even an outlook on the world, it's more akin to a denial of the world.

"The man who destroys himself creates the universe. To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea. When he looks at all the faces in the street, he does not only realize that men are alive, he realizes with a dramatic pleasure that they are not dead."

Yet, Bowie could not ever quite make a convincing case that he believed other people are not dead, or at least that their existence was anything more significant than their non-existence because for him, all significance came from him and him alone.

	▲	Applejinx 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Well, then he gave up cocaine and had lots of happy years of further creativity. I think you're mistaking the Thin White Duke for the guy who survived portraying the Thin White Duke. I guess he's throwing darts in haters' eyes, too :)