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johnnyjeans 20 hours ago

The comparisons they're making don't make sense to me. I don't think I've ever even seen a logic language without nested expressions. Also VERY weird they give non-determinism as a feature of logic programming. Prolog is the only one off the top of my head that allows for it. Even most Prolog derivatives drop the cut and negation operations. In the broader scope of logic languages, most aren't even turing complete, like Datalog or CLIPS.

I really feel like Prolog and its horn clause syntax are underappreciated. For as much as lispers will rant and rave about macros, how their code is data, it always struck me as naive cope. How can you say that code is data (outside of the obvious von neumann meaning), but still require a special atomic operation to distinguish the two? In Prolog, there is no such thing as a quote. It literally doesn't make sense as a concept. Code is just data. There is no distinguishing between the two, they're fully unified as concepts (pun intended). It's a special facet of Prolog that only makes sense in its exotic execution model that doesn't even have a concept of a "function".

For that reason, I tend to have a pessimistic outlook on things like Curry. Static types are nice, and they don't work well with horn clauses (without abusing atoms/terms as a kind of type-system), but it's really not relevant enough to the paradigm that replacing beautiful horn clauses with IYSWIM/ML syntax makes sense to me. Quite frankly, I have great disdain even for Elixir which trades the beautiful Prolog-derived syntax of Erlang for a psuedo-Ruby.

One thing I really would like to see is further development of the abstract architectures used for logic programming systems. The WAM is cool, but it's absolute ancient and theory has progressed lightyears since it was designed. The interaction calculus, or any graph reduction architecture, promises huge boons for a neo-prolog system. GHC has incidentally paved the way for a brand new generation of logic programming. Sometimes I feel crazy for being the only one who sees it.

YeGoblynQueenne 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Curry is very recognisably the functional programmer's conception of what logic programing is, which is the way it's described in the SICP book. Nothing to do with Resolution, Horn clauses, or even unification, instead it's all about DFS with backtracking. Sometimes dictionaries (!) have something to do with it [1].

I'm speaking from personal experience here. DFS with backtracking has always featured very prominently in discussions I've had with functional programming folks about logic programming and Prolog and for a while I didn't understand why. Well it's because they have an extremely simplified, reductive model of logic programming in mind. As a consequence there's a certain tendency to dismiss logic programming as overly simplistic. I remember a guy telling me the simplest exercise in some or other of the classic functional programming books is implementing Prolog in (some kind of) Lisp and it's so simple! I told him the simplest exercise in Prolog is implementing Prolog in Prolog but I don't think he got what I meant because what the hell is a Prolog meta-interpreter anyway [2]?

I've also noticed that functional programmers are scared of unification - weird pattern matching on both sides, why would anyone ever need that? They're also freaked out by the concept of logic varibles and what they call "patterns with holes" like [a,b,C,D,_,E] which are magickal and mysterious, presumably because you have to jump through hoops to do something like that in Lisp. Like you have to jump through hoops to treat your code as data, as you say.

And of course if you drop Resolution, you drop SLD-Resolution, and if you drop SLD-Resolution you drop the Horn clauses, whose big advantage is that they make SLD-Resolution a piece of cake. Hence the monstrous abomination of "logic programming" languages that look like ... Haskell. Or sometimes like Scheme.

Beh, rant over. It's late. Go to sleep grandma. yes yes you did it all with Horn clauses in your time yadda yadda...

___________

[1] Like in this MIT lecture by H. Abelson, I believe with G. Sussman looking on:

https://youtu.be/rCqMiPk1BJE?si=VBOWeS-K62qeWax8

[2] It's a Prolog interpreter written in Prolog. Like this:

  prove(true):-
    !. %OMG
  prove((Literal,Literals):-
    prove(Literal)
   ,prove(Literals).
  prove(Literal):-
    Literal \= (_,_)
   ,clause(Literal,Body)
   ,prove(Body).
Doubles as a programmatic definition of SLD-Resolution.
johnnyjeans 14 hours ago | parent [-]

a prolog wizard crossing the path is an exceedingly rare and brilliant event, im compelled to make a wish upon this shooting star :3

> I remember a guy telling me the simplest exercise in some or other of the classic functional programming books is implementing Prolog in (some kind of) Lisp and it's so simple!

it's really easy to underestimate just how well engineered prolog's grammar is, because it's so deceptively simple. the only way you're getting simpler is like, assembly. and it's a turing equivalent kind of machine, but because if you squint your eyes you can delude yourself into thinking it kind of looks procedural, people can fool themselves into satisfaction that they "get" it, without actually getting it.

but the moment NAF and resolution as a concept clicks, it's like you brushed up against the third rail of the universe. it's insane to me we let these paradigms rot in the stuffy archives of history. the results this language pulls with natural language processing should raise any sensible person's alarm bells to maximum volume: something is Very Different here. if lisp comes from another planet, prolog came from an alternate dimension. technological zenith will be reached when we push a prolog machine into an open time-like curve and make our first hypercomputation.

YeGoblynQueenne 6 hours ago | parent [-]

>> a prolog wizard crossing the path is an exceedingly rare and brilliant event, im compelled to make a wish upon this shooting star :3

Well, hello fellow traveler :)

>> but the moment NAF and resolution as a concept clicks, it's like you brushed up against the third rail of the universe.

I know, it's mind blowing. Maybe one day there will be a resurgence.

spencerflem 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What's your take on Finite Choice Logic Programming / Dusa btw?

Been messing with it & Answer Set Programming recently and still trying to work out my own thoughts on it