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ryandrake a day ago

> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.

Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!

EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :(

> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!

Yes to a simple battery system!

> - Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).

Yes!

> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.

Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families. You really want a bench seat to at least stick a small child between the driver and passenger. Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.

The article mentions an SUV upgrade kit that will bolt onto the back of the truck. Ugh, OK I guess. Sad that that's the way it will probably have to go.

1: https://youtu.be/cq1qEjwSYkw

hylaride a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families.

What you need is not a pickup truck. Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.

> Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.

Rightfully so. Back in the day we did so many things we shouldn't have, and survivorship bias makes us default to thinking it was ok. As kids, we used to go barrelling down dirt roads in the back of pickups or played in the backs of station wagons. There's a reason automobile deaths have gone down.

RandomBacon a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.

It absolutely does NOT mean those things.

Cars didn't have entertainment systems for nearly a century and families did just fine.

<Get off my lawn>

My entertainment system was the window. Observe the world, not just whatever AI-generated garbage some algorithm pushes to a small screen 8-10 inches away from your eyes.

</Get off my lawn>

ethbr1 a day ago | parent | next [-]

And aside from a window, you know what's better than a car infotainment system?

A physical holder for a personal pad device.

The amount of not-invented-here, duplicate functionality that car companies execute poorly, when buyers already have devices that do that well, is ridiculous.

The biggest benefit of aligning manufacturing costs for profit should be jettisoning the "post-sale" revenue streams that drive complicated built-in tech for current cars.

And also, you-know, 100% A+ on getting back to "customize your own car, because it's cheap and supported"!

Owners being afraid of doing what they want with their devices/vehicles has to stop.

FredPret a day ago | parent | next [-]

> The amount of not-invented-here, duplicate functionality that car companies execute poorly, when buyers already have devices that do that well, is ridiculous.

Like when GM invented their own computer to put into their cars instead of just buying one off the shelf decades ago

looofooo0 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Lol, yes we just throw a phone and a Tablet with headphones to the kids.

jajko a day ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

GuinansEyebrows 18 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm sure your screenless children are perfect :)

tomrod 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Aye. It's a staple of both failed and successful parents. In fact, using a screen in a car is wholly unrelated to, well, anything.

avn2109 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes! By far the biggest feature here is "no infotainment" which leads directly to "hard controls for HVAC," that alone is a killer feature! They should double down on that concept and make the truck work perfectly with no apps at all and no OtA updates too.

palata 21 hours ago | parent [-]

No OTA updates would be a killer.

What is the need for OTA updates for an EV, once you remove the autopilot and touch screen? Genuinely interested, I would guess there is none, right?

ryandrake 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Patches and OTA updates just scream "We know ahead of time our product is defective." Arguably OK for software (but I'd argue not), but not even remotely OK for cars.

LeafItAlone 18 hours ago | parent [-]

>"We know ahead of time our product is defective."

All products are defective. Full stop.

Cars are necessarily complex and have a lot of software to get the safety, comfortable, and reliability we expect today.

Most vehicles get some sort of recall; usually minor. I just checked the NHTSA recall website and every car I could think of owned by people I know (~30 vehicles) had some had some recall.

Cars should have an easy way to update. I’m generally against always connected cars (which are the norm today), but there must be some way to patch them.

I don’t like the idea of cars having cellular modems in them (my mind goes to nefarious implications), but having a way to securely update it without having to bring to a mechanic would be nice.

seattle_spring 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OTA updates are considered bad? What?

OTA updates on my truck have vastly improved suspension response and cruise-control/ lane-assist features. My wife's car has had OTA updates that improve her cars charging curve, and have implemented recalls for stuff like brake light response when regen braking.

Sure one could say these things should have worked perfectly from the factory, but that's not realistic: not with my cars, not with your cars, and not with this new brand either.

The only alternative I see here is the old fashioned way of having to bring it to a dealership. I would rather have an entire foot of ingrown toenails over dealing with dealership service centers of any brand.

reaperducer 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What is the need for OTA updates for an EV, once you remove the autopilot and touch screen? Genuinely interested, I would guess there is none, right?

Yes, and no.

I've only started following this recently, but a lot of OTA updates aren't just bug fixes, they're additional features.

My wife's car recently got a free OTA update which upgraded her radio to get HD stations. A previous update allowed her car to start recognizing more types of School Zone and Night Speed signs.

I've read that every year (February, I think) Tesla pushes out a big update that adds features. However, the last two Tesla pushes included a bunch of features that came standard with my wife's (much cheaper) car years ago.

You could certainly argue that her car should have come with HD Radio enabled from the start, and ditto for the Tesla features. But to suppose that all OTA car updates are nothing more than more invasive tracking and bug fixes is not strictly correct.

mulmen 18 hours ago | parent [-]

Ok but this car doesn’t have an infotainment system and it doesn’t detect road signs.

hylaride a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It absolutely does NOT mean those things.

I don't personally disagree with you, but today it pretty much does.

Anyways, my point is that this is designed as a utilitarian, cheap truck that covers the use case that most pickup trucks are actually utilitarian for, like local farm or light duty construction work. It's got a short range, no entertainment for long drives, etc. The article doesn't even say if it has AC (Slate's site seems to have images that allude to it having it).

The OP wants something for families, which exists and costs more because most families want more. They want good, cheap, and available when you can only have two. Even with gas/diesel powered trucks, there's a huge difference between the utilitarian ones construction workers and farmers buy and beat up and the expensive "luxury" quad-cabs that families now buy because minivans are too uncool.

taylodl a day ago | parent [-]

If you consider a fur baby a family! :)

I want something much more utilitarian than what is being pitched to today's families. If you want a Quad Cab, Infotainment systems, and yadda, yadda, yadda - the market already has options. Lots of them.

If you want a cheap, light duty truck similar to what a Chevy S10 or a Ford Ranger used to be, then you're pretty much SOL.

crazygringo 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> My entertainment system was the window. Observe the world...

The world is pretty freaking boring when it's just pavement and the 5,000th time you've passed the same strip mall, gas station, and McDonald's. The same dirty snowbanks on either side of the same gray asphalt under the interminably gray winter sky.

Maybe you lived in a place of wonderful natural beauty, or a vibrant urban street culture. A lot of people don't.

hollerith 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I concede that the way much of the US looks from car windows might be bad for people's mental health, but I doubt any of the badness is prevented by playing music or listening to podcasts in the car.

robocat 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some interesting people find your examples interesting: perhaps native to their personality.

However I strongly believe we can cultivate fascination with the droll.

A gray worldview might possibly say more about you.

Is a gray grain of sand interesting? Blaming a local world for being boring seems overly negative.

myself248 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Boredom is not fatal. Bring it on.

crazygringo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

So you're cool with living in extreme poverty because it's not "fatal"? "Bring it on"?

Lots of things that aren't fatal are still very undesirable.

myself248 an hour ago | parent [-]

Boredom is so essential to human mental health, that after we automated it away with the industrial revolution, we had to reinvent it (we call it "meditation" now) to stay sane.

Being alone with your thoughts for a few minutes is not in the same class as being unable to afford food or medicine. Get out, troll, this isn't Reddit.

reaperducer 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The world is pretty freaking boring when it's just pavement and the 5,000th time you've passed the same strip mall, gas station, and McDonald's. The same dirty snowbanks on either side of the same gray asphalt under the interminably gray winter sky.

And yet, somehow the children survived and thrived.

They learned to make up games, to entertain themselves, and to -- perish the thought -- talk to other human beings in their own family! /shudder/

crazygringo 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Did they?

I hate to tell you, but a lot of them didn't thrive. Some of them didn't even survive. Some of them didn't have families that particularly want to talk to them. Or when they were spoken to, it wasn't exactly healthy.

Just because maybe you had a great childhood, doesn't mean everybody did.

reaperducer 19 hours ago | parent [-]

I hate to tell you, but a lot of them didn't thrive. Some of them didn't even survive.

Citation needed.

Maybe we shouldn't pretend that a small number of exceptions are the norm. Nobody is saying that every child had a completely happy childhood. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with not being entertained 100% of the time. Being bored is a good thing.

Just because maybe you had a great childhood, doesn't mean everybody did. Let's not look at the past through rose-tinted glasses.

I think you're projecting.

crazygringo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You... need a citation for that?

I don't think you're conversing in good faith here. And it's not helpful or appropriate on HN to accuse someone else of "projecting".

18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
hermitcrab a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Cars didn't have entertainment systems for nearly a century and families did just fine.

ARE WE THERE YET? ... ARE WE THERE YET? ... ARE WE THERE YET?

hyperhopper 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That was before smartphone and tablets were common

hn7283 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

kebokyo 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I respect the “old person yelling at clouds” disclaimer lmao.

Honestly, I got bummed when I found out this was an electric vehicle, I wish there wasn’t a chance for my vehicle to get bricked through an over-the-air update, and I personally would like to have a basic stereo with an aux input just so I can listen to FM stations or Spotify while I haul a bunch of DIY materials around without having to install my own speakers.

My friend keeps telling me to get a truck for my next vehicle, and while this truck doesn’t make the cut for me, hopefully future trucks made either by Slate Auto or other manufacturers inspired by them will add juuuust the right amount of creature comforts to win me over.

the__alchemist 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Could you talk us through the over-the-air update concern?

globnomulous 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or read books!

lupusreal 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Read books, and/or knock yourself out with dramamine.

tekla a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Kids will return to imagining Sonic running along the car

parpfish a day ago | parent | next [-]

you mean "finger-man running on the side of the road and jumping over buildings"?

we would've called it parkour if we had known what parkour was back then

RandomBacon a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I never heard it quite put that way, but yes, I did something very similar.

ethbr1 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

{insert Sonic ring sound in your head}

0xdeadbeefbabe a day ago | parent | prev [-]

The alphabet game still works if you teach them to read.

Beijinger a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is written in the article that it can fit more seats. And if you click through the pics you will see it.

7speter a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Station wagons from the prehistoric era were family cars and had bench seats, and only had a Radio…

kasey_junk 21 hours ago | parent [-]

You had a radio?

drivingmenuts a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families

I believe I saw there are plans for some sort of SUV conversion.

> Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.

IF it could just get a bluetooth signal from an iDevice or some Android thing, that would probably suffice for a basic option. If the owner needs more than than, let them install (or have installed) some sort of third-party infotainment head of some sort.

Back in the old days, cars sometimes had a single speaker and that was plenty sufficient for listening to music.

taylodl a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd want the mobile app to be an auxiliary, not a requirement for operating the truck. Keep the dashboard simple.

ryandrake a day ago | parent | next [-]

I'd be worried that once an app got a foothold into the product, the company would be unable to resist the urge to spread the app's tentacles across the entire vehicle, adding connectivity and telemetry and DRM, integrating it into the other car's systems, adding remote-this and wireless-that, and then inevitably the product would end up just like the turd cars we have today.

instaclay a day ago | parent | next [-]

I have a iron filter that works via app. All configs can be done with button presses on the valve but in a much more tedious process/workflow.

It connects via bluetooth and not WiFi. If the company goes belly up, I'd just need the APK and an android phone to continue using the app to configure the valve and see/download water usage data.

Fast forward 20 years when I can't install the APK on android v79, I'd need an older phone to run the APK.. but that seems to be pulling hairs.

Apps would be great, it's how you handle the backend to it that's the gotcha.

I also have a water softener with an app that no longer works that had it's backend shut down. It can still be configured via the valve head button presses, but none of the "smart" usage data is available. As an example of good design, this is a perfect dichotomy of one company doing it well and one company doing it un-well[sic].

ryandrake a day ago | parent | next [-]

Not only the backend, but what happens 40 years in the future, when our phones don't run the app anymore, or we're all on phones that are totally unlike the phones of today, or if we don't even have phones or apps? I would expect the car to still work after that long, and making it dependent on a technology that is specific to a particular decade risks premature obsolescence.

instaclay a day ago | parent | next [-]

I'll be ecstatic if my iron filter lasts 40 years.

I saw in another post that a person said there's a difference between "device dependent" and "device augmented" that really resonated with me.

There's diminishing returns on everything, and just throwing your hands up on any subject as bad/good might be a disservice.

If I live through an era where phones are no longer a thing and APKs are a thing of the past.. then I either...

A. Don't use the iron filter like that anymore. (manual programing now) B. Get a new iron filter. (ewwwww) C. Keep a legacy-device for the purposes of programming the iron filter. (doesn't need any internet connection or subscriptions)

(C) would be my most liked solution.

EvanAnderson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> ...what happens 40 years in the future, when our phones don't run the app anymore...

40 years? How about, like, 3 to 5 years? Remember when Apple decided to kill all 32-bit iOS apps for new hardware? I have an old iPod and iPhone 4S with "landlocked" software I enjoy using but can't anymore because Apple.

Phone manufacturers have shown they don't give a damn about allowing old software to function. Physical devices tied to software is a terrible idea.

ryandrake a day ago | parent [-]

Fully agree. We may have to keep a 40 year old phone around in order to just use a 40 year old car's companion app.

stevenwoo a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Relying on a mobile app is relying mobile operating system compatibility over the years and is just asking for combinatorial methods of obsolescence via OS/app/library breaking changes, plus if your old phone breaks, etc. Open sourced mobile app with open sourced back end might be somewhat acceptable but otherwise it's just asking to be bricked as soon as one of the companies involved goes under as we have seen time and again just in past couple of years.

nine_k a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Not an app, but an API. And an app on top of that, if desired.

Also there are evergreen interfaces, so to say. An RS232 / RS485 connector that serves 115kbps 8N1 serial interface and runs a VT220-based TUI should still be serviceable 40 years from now (VT220 was released 42 years ago). A now-modern web-based GUI also has a great chance to be serviceable 40 years from now.

oslem a day ago | parent | prev [-]

100% agree. I would be fine if they had an estimated time-to-fully-charged displayed on the screen. I don’t need to know the status of my vehicle, personally. I would imagine a third party system could be implemented to achieve most of what one would need.

reginald78 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nice idea in theory. In practice, apps imply ongoing OTA connectivity, which means the truck will be updated to show ads or at the very least collect and sell all my driving information to any dirtbag that can rub two nickels together. Connected devices can alter the deal so they will, after all I've lost any leverage against them after I purchased the vehicle.

organsnyder a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the vehicle had an open interface (maybe via CAN bus over the OBD2 port?), then DIY and aftermarket apps become possibilities.

theamazing0 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think legally they would need to require using an app for their back view camera. All new cars in the United States after 2018 need one and I don't see how it would work without using the phone/tablet as a display.

mulmen 18 hours ago | parent [-]

The article says the rear camera feed will be displayed on a screen behind the steering wheel which doubles as the speedometer and charge display.

ryandrake 17 hours ago | parent [-]

That seems like a clever and reasonable compromise to comply with a particularly bad regulation.

mulmen 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don’t have a problem with the regulation. Slate is trying to build a safe, affordable, electric vehicle. Having one display for all information seems like a good way to save cost.

Beijinger a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You need an app. You could make steering to the left only available in a 50 USD per month subscription but steering right is free or something like it.

nine_k a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Yes to a simple battery system!

Battery balancing and conditioning does not need to be fancy, and does not need a fancy screen; a couple of LEDs should suffice.

But I'd like my batteries charged competently, recharged efficiently while braking, worn uniformly, and kept at reasonable temperature. It's not hard to do completely automatically and invisibly; a quality electric bike would have it.

EvanAnderson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Noooooooooo! No apps, please!

I wish devices could have web servers and web-based UI rather than thick "apps" that end up rotting when device manufacturers arbitrarily decide that old software won't work anymore (cough, cough-- Apple-- cough, cough).

I know we can't because "security", no end-to-end over the Internet anymore, etc. >sigh<

It seems like we've engineered the networking and software ecosystem to promote disposable "smart" devices. It's almost like somebody profits from it. Hmm...

nine_k a day ago | parent [-]

Why, we of course could if we cared. Let the car offer a wifi access point. WPA3 is secure enough, but you can of course have an extra layer of TLS inside it.

For the extra paranoid, a car could have a USB socket that pretends to be a wired network interface, offering DHCP.

Run a web server for car diagnostics and maintenance when connected to this interface. Do it from the comfort of your laptop, or anywhere anytime using your phone. Zero chance of remote exploits, if you set the things correctly on the car side. An ESP32-based system with $5 BOM would suffice to provide this.

andrewla a day ago | parent [-]

Not with off the shelf protocols. Yes WPA3 is plenty secure, but any AP advertising the same SSID with the same key would allow the device to connect. So how do you know that you're connected to your car, and not to the black hat AP next to it?

From there, you can have as much TLS as you want, but that still won't give you server identity unless the server certificate is signed by someone you already trust. So a generic web browser would be screwed, because you either add SlateTruckCertificateAuthority to the globally trusted list, and then you still have to deal with revocations and certificate expiry, or you use some other CA that is willing to delegate. There's no good support for self-signed certificates or pinned certificates, and even if there were, the initial connection would be tough.

Unfortunately this really isn't a well-solved problem. Bluetooth can get you part of the way there, but it only offers really good security in theory (in practice it is constantly having issues) and it is intrinsically limited.

nine_k 21 hours ago | parent [-]

First of all, the SSID and password should be unique. Then, you can have a QR code printed in the owner's manual, and inside the glove compartment, or something. There's a standard for QR codes for connecting to wifi, so you don't have to type in the long and cryptic password.

But I don't see much incentive to produce a fake wifi AP for me to connect to with my car diagnostics. I'm not going to punch my bank account and password into it anyway. If I'm misled to alter the battery charging settings for someone else's car, or for a pretend mockup of the car controller, I don't see what the perpetrator could gain from it.

Then there must be a button on the car dashboard, or near, which I should press to activate the AC (it does not need to be up all the time), and press again to switch it off. This can serve as an easy way to check if there's doubt. The interface may have a function like headlights on / off as a simple way to check that the connection works.

Animats 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning.

Why should it lack that? That's a tiny piece of software in the charge controller, which on this vehicle ought to be some tiny microcontroller.

enslavedrobot 19 hours ago | parent [-]

In car it requires liquid cooling and from conversations I've had with former Tesla engineers, exquisite control over power quality.

Just ask a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt owner.

warble 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

EV battery engineer here. It's not hard. Battery management systems are often over engineered but the state of the art is fairly straightforward and will allow battery packs of sufficient size last 200k miles or more easily.

justin66 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> exquisite control over power quality

So a... 16 bit microcontroller?

almosthere 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I absolutely agree with you on the NO APP thing. I too just want air conditioning knobs and that's it. A truck from 1980 that is an EV that can haul lumber to build a house.

burnerthrow008 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Yes to a simple battery system!

But you realize this will make cold-weather range suck and on-the-road charging suck, right?

Preheating the battery and cabin on "shore power" is something EV buyers just expect at this point because that can consume 2-3kWh of energy (equivalent to 6-10 miles or 10-16 km). That's almost 10% of Slate's range (see below).

Preheating the battery about 10-15 minutes before you arrive at a supercharger is another expected feature. It can increase charge acceptance rate by over 50% (reduce charge time by 1/3).

The 150 mile range is extremely optimistic given the size of the battery and shape of the truck. With just 5% top and bottom buffers, you'd need to achieve over 3.1 miles/kWh... which is the consumption expected of a small aerodynamic sedan. I would bet real money that highway range (at 75 mph) for the small battery is less than 120 miles from 100% to 0.

warble 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Highway speeds are worst case scenario so maybe you're right but I doubt it.

Your charge rate acceptance number is surprising to me, I've never seen anything like this in my years of experience designing EV batteries. Preconditioning helps extreme fast charging but isn't necessary for 1-2 C charges at all unless it's very cold out.

There's some caveats to this depending on the exact chemistry but if anything the newer semi solid state NMC cells are even less dependent on this and can charge down to -20C.

tw04 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!

What car is tied to your phone? A mustang mach-e, for instance, does not require your phone at all. It has a FOB for opening the doors and starting it, you can program the charging times from the in-car screen.

The app is optional, exactly as it should be. This car DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not. With no in-car screen you'll have absolutely no way to control charging which WILL come back to bite you.

>Yes to a simple battery system!

"simple" in this case will add cost. Nearly every EV has the battery as a part of the structural frame of the vehicle for a reason (there are some niche exceptions in China). Nothing is impossible, but I don't see them making the battery easily swappable, while also being structurally sound, and keeping the low price point.

nancyminusone a day ago | parent [-]

> DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not

I don't own an EV. What for? Do you really need more than a button or two and some leds?

yreg 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In addition to the sibling comment, you want to be able to check if the vehicle is charging and everything is fine remotely. EVs randomly stopping charging for various reasons is not rare at all. You want to get a notification.

You want to know when the vehicle finishes charging so you can vacate the public charger.

You want to be able to reduce the current when the charging is tripping breakers wherever you are.

tw04 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Controlling your charging. You shouldn’t be charging more than 80% for daily driving unless you want to destroy your battery.

You will almost assuredly also want to be able to precondition if you live in a cold climate.

tredre3 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Again, why do you consider those things as better done via a smartphone and an app, versus using the already built-in screen (the one behind the wheel)?

tw04 5 hours ago | parent [-]

As I’ve already stated, I consider it better done by both. I don’t think forcing one or the other is a good user experience.

Every preview I’ve seen has stated that display is for the speedometer and backup camera, and that’s it. It’s not an input device.

potato3732842 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.

Take her car on those trips then. You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping? The product isn't trying to do everything. It's trying to be the minimum viable truck and be good at it. And just like the purpose built roadster you give up unrelated stuff, like family hauling.

83 21 hours ago | parent [-]

> You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping?

Because 2-seat pickups used to function this way. It's okay to pine for functionality that has been lost, particularly when a new product like this comes along and gets your hopes up.

pedalpete 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you're assuming a mobile app would mean that the car is dependent on your phone. Just because an app can be connected to your car doesn't mean the app controls your car.