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finnjohnsen2 13 hours ago

I dont love the idea of Apple eco system for server side development. I trust them to try make a great eco system for their own OSes based on their self interrest. I do not trust them to drive and maintain a server side eco system, because I don’t see how the effort is directly linked to making money.

That said, Swift and SwiftUI is super nice, so I know they know how to make great software for their OS-es. Almost. Once they fix XCode.

AceJohnny2 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I dont love the idea of Apple eco system for server side development.

100%! Everyone repeat after me: "macOS Is Not A Server OS"

macOS is approximately the worst OS you can run a server on:

1. It is buggy. We had a bug in Sonoma where our CI machines would freeze on some filesystem access. The bug was fixed during Sonoma's lifetime... but only released in Sequoia. Before that we had a rare bug that plagued us for years (once every few months across several CI machines) where a process would fail to execute with "/bin/sh: cannot execute binary file", indicating an erroneous ENOEXEC from the kernel (that bug quietly disappeared)

2. It has no LTS version. See above filesystem hang. Want a fix? Cool, it comes only in the next major OS version, along with a host other changes you didn't want, and new bugs! (see point 4 below)

3. It is just poorly documented. Apple's doc are awful, poorly searcheable, they will change things and not document it, you're left with the community trying to reverse-engineer everything (I cannot recommend eclecticlight.co enough!)

4. It's just bloated with cruft for consumers. Upgrade to Sequoia 15.3? You got a free download of "Apple Intelligence" models, there go a few GBs! Again rely on the community to come up with the magic settings to disable stuff.

Ask me how I feel about macOS as a server.

(I lament the death of XServe, which could've driven more server-focused software quality)

frizlab 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> macOS Is Not A Server OS

It does not matter, Swift server-side can run (and be built) on Linux (or Windows BTW, or even embedded platforms (a subset of the language anyway))…

frizlab 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don’t have to be on the Apple ecosystem to use Swift. They have full Linux compatibility and an official (as is supported by the Swiftlang group, not even Apple, thought it’s more or less the same) VSCode extension.

They have a lot of server-side projects going on. They are also increasingly using Swift on the server themselves (not on macOS).

Finally, small nitpick, but it shows you don’t care, it’s written Xcode.

robertjpayne 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple increasingly uses Swift on server themselves. They’re investing directly where they have needs like SwiftNIO and now this.