| ▲ | antfarm 14 hours ago |
| I love Swift, but it has the only compiler that ever told me to rewrite my code because it cannot analyze it in a reasonable length of time. |
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| ▲ | zapnuk 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's a contender for a "best idea and worst execution" award for programming languages in the last 20 years. I'd like to think that if things went just a little bit better it would have beed the ideal programming language for anything cloud / backend related. |
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| ▲ | Someone 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > It’s a contender for a "best idea and worst execution" award for programming languages in the last 20 years. I’m not sure of the “worst execution” part. Is it even possible to make a Swift compiler that doesn’t occasionally hit those “humans immediately see what this code does, but it takes ages to compile this” moments? I think there’s something about Swift’s type system that makes those moments unavoidable. If so, Swift is more “good idea, but too flexible to build a compiler for”, and they should have killed some of their darlings to get a better language. | |
| ▲ | bsaul 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The swift language is absolutely fantastic. But the constraints (such as objective-c compatibility) made it a juggernaut. It's actually very surprising they managed to get that language work at all given the size of it. In that regard, i wouldn't say execution was bad. It was just unrealistic, and too much was asked from it. | | |
| ▲ | frizlab 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | ObjC interoperability is a solved problem now for Swift. They are even adding C++ and Java interop too! | | |
| ▲ | bsaul 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | it is, but it definitely added some weight to the language. At least i think so, i'm not a PL expert. My recent point of comparison is rust, which feels like a much much smaller language, despite sharing a lot of the philosophy (struct + trait, which is very similar to what swift recommends to use nowadays, and limit the use of class). |
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| ▲ | turnsout 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Give it another shot—it is an ideal language for server-side code. The team has been working on error messages and compile times a lot over the past few years. At this point, it's extremely productive. If you run into trouble, you can usually improve the dev experience by declaring types. This is usually only an issue if you're using a lot of generics or overloaded methods. let x = y.fruit(ripeness: 0.9) // <- instead of this
let x: Banana = y.fruit(ripeness: 0.9) // <- do this
If Swift is giving you grief, it's probably type inference being slow or producing strange errors.Related to the above, generics are powerful, but I strongly feel they should only be used if they clarify the code. Often they obfuscate and complicate what's going on, especially if you have the interaction of two generic types. | | |
| ▲ | square_usual 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > it is an ideal language for server-side code Maybe, but in my most recent attempt to use vapor (~a year ago?), the project it created with `vapor new` had inscrutable compilation errors off the bat, and so I immediately gave up. | | |
| ▲ | frizlab 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | When was your most recent attempt? I think the `vapor` tool has been updated a few weeks ago[1]. Basically it was an old tool that worked around some limitations around SPM and Xcode, but it is mostly unneeded nowadays. It is basically a simple template resolver now, and I think the templates in question have been updated too. [1] <https://blog.vapor.codes/posts/toolbox-rewrite/> | |
| ▲ | turnsout 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | On ubuntu or macOS? I've found Vapor to be pretty solid—and the Vapor team is super responsive via Github and Discord. |
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| ▲ | bsaul 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| anecdotally, it was also the first production compiler that i saw crash, and it was on regular code. |
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| ▲ | cvwright 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | And Swift compiler crashes aren’t even rare. You get used to it and learn how to track down the code that caused it. I think I’ve seen a C compiler crash once or maybe twice, ever. | | |
| ▲ | bsaul 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The fact that a compiler is crashing really makes me shiver. If the compiler is crashing because of unexpected combinations, then what about the generated code ? | | |
| ▲ | frizlab 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | There were also issues in the generated code, yeah. But to be fair that front has been hugely enhanced; it’s been a very long while since I’ve since the Swift compiler crash (and I do weird stuff too). |
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| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That’s the “I found this on the web” Siri reply for Swift compilation. It happens most frequently, when writing SwiftUI code. It means absolutely nothing, and infuriates me, whenever I get it. It’s usually some kind of simple syntax error, but it could be absolutely anywhere in the indicated block of code. When I get one of those, the way I debug, is to comment out the entire block, then uncomment, in steps, until I encounter the issue. At that point, I usually just have to spend a bunch of time, staring at the offending section, until I figure it out. |
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| ▲ | deze333 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Don't fight compiler. Just give it an extra definition here and there and it will give you back with blazing compilation speed. Cryptic but "sexy" statements bring suffering in long term, it's a bit like raping your own laptop. No one wins. |
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| ▲ | antfarm 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | I especially ran into it when doing last year's Advent of Code. I restricted myself to not using mutable state or custom data types, i.e. structs or classes, writing in a functional style. That style involved a lot of method chaining (i.e. x.map(...).reduce(...)...) and, of course, of closures. I had to introduce a lot of helper variables to break up my longer transformation pipelines to make the compiler happy. I hope Swift is not going the way of Scala any further, which I enjoyed a lot when I adopted it early on, but eventually turned into a monster of a language. Btw., for recreational coding, I moved on to Elixir in the meanwhile. | | |
| ▲ | deze333 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, Swift is for creating end-user products, fast iteration, fast delivery. This is where it shines. For recreational coding definitely pick something that reflects your deeper aesthetic affinity, I totally get what you mean. |
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