Remix.run Logo
occz 5 days ago

Electric buses in the form of trolleybuses seems like the better option than either of these, although I do agree that battery buses beat hydrogen every day of the week.

jillesvangurp 4 days ago | parent [-]

Batteries are cheap. Installing lots of copper lines for trolley buses isn't. That's why trolley buses are pretty rare. Old idea, didn't really take that well. There are a handful of cities that have them. And they've had them for decades. Most of those cities now also have battery electrical buses to service all the areas where the cables don't go. Expanding the network of cables doesn't seem to have a very high priority. Installing chargers (in depots mostly) is much easier and cheaper. And it's not like batteries are that expensive.

With battery prices trending to 50$ per kwh, a decent size bus battery of 250kwh would cost about 12.5K. That's manufacturing cost, not purchase cost. But it drives the point home: long term batteries are going to dip even further. Far below 50$/kwh. It will drive down the cost of battery electric drive trains for everything with wheels to far below that of the traditional setup with ICE engines. And they don't need expensive fuel to run. Or a lot of engine maintenance and servicing.

Currently tens of thousands of electrical buses are produced per year. Most of them in China. Which is of course where they have lots of battery factories. It's a rapidly growing industry.

dvdkon 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

As a counterpoint, Prague is building new trolleybus lines at a somewhat regular pace after having abandoned them in the 70s.

Granted, these trolleybuses also have batteries and only spend about 1/2 of their journey under wires.

masklinn 4 days ago | parent [-]

Yep, hybrid trolleys / battery trolleys are really cool, as they provide the flexibility of batteries to e.g. work around roadworks and blockage, but allow for a more distributed electricity consumption thanks to partially fixed routes / overhead lines.

The poles also make for convenient overhead charging docks, which you can add on a somewhat piecemeal manner. With some automated guidance, that means you can charge the buses at long-wait stops or when they wait to run the route back even though they're not a a depot, without the need for an "accessible" charging infrastructure (or the driver needing to move out, go open an electric cabinet, plug in a charge cable, then remember to unplug before going back out).

bluGill 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Trolly wires generally work out cheaper than batteries if you are running frequent service. Batteries work out better anyway though because they allow you to go around obsticals (roadwork, cars illegally parked in the land...)

preisschild 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Batteries work out better anyway though because they allow you to go around obsticals (roadwork, cars illegally parked in the land...)

The pantographs of trolleybuses are often pretty long, so they can switch to the other lane to avoid obstacles.

bluGill 4 days ago | parent [-]

Which does no good if the whole road is blocked.

adrian_b 4 days ago | parent [-]

Which is why many European cities have lanes reserved for public transportation, in order to prevent stupid car drivers to block the traffic.