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Kirby64 5 days ago

> you would need a whole new infrastructure for hydrogen powered buses, while keeping a lot of the downsides of fossil fueled air breathing vehicles (eq. air filters filters regardless of if you burn the hydrogen or use it in fuel cells).

Unless you burn the hydrogen, you aren't producing any emissions... unless you count water as an emission. Fuel cells don't produce any emissions.

Burning hydrogen though, does produce some emissions, however it's pretty minimal. I believe it's only NOx, and even then at far lower rates compared to gas vehicles. No CO2, CO, or any other stuff from gas or not-fully-burnt gas.

That said, I agree hydrogen has seemingly no place in something like buses. Frankly, the only places that I see hydrogen has any future is either going to be for planes and boats, or potentially for intermediate storage akin to batteries (i.e., create hydrogen with excess solar/wind power).

vegavis 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Fuel Cells have a lot in common to ICE. They require a significant balance of plant that helps provide air to the fuel cell, coolant for many of the components, electronics controller and significant electrical harnessing, bracketry for support, filters, coolant pump, air source, radiator... etc.

in one way it is a downside since its more parts and complication than maybe a pure EV architecture, but the similarities to ICE arch means that its an attractive option to transition to for both the OEMs and a tiered supply base used to working on ICE vehicles. If you can get economies of scale going and bring cost down for fuel cell its a great replacement for many (not all) ICE archs.

They are preferred solutions for larger vehicles because of the weight of lithium ion batteries. also because theyre optimized for power density while electric architectures excel with energy capacity/storage. But if you can implement infrastructure at the locations where these larger Class A vehicles are (or busses), then you dont care about capacity for the known universe's lightest (resting mass) fuel as much since H2 refuel times are fast.

You are correct about boats though, it is also a good solution set there. Planes will only work if we can achieve air cooled hydrogen fuel cells and eliminate the expensive and heavy balance of plant (Hysata).

deepsun 4 days ago | parent [-]

I drove hydrogen Mirai, and it feels pretty much electric in every way but fueling. It drives off battery, no hybrid transmission, hydrogen is only there to charge the battery.

vardump 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Don't fuel cells require air without any contaminants, thus air filters?

So you still need filters, this not for the exhaust, but for the intake.

Kirby64 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Is that a real problem here? Air filters on ICE cars are easy and not that frequent. You need cabin air filters regardless for passengers, so changing those at the same time isn’t that much different. Filters are cheap unless fuel cell ones are super expensive for some reason.

vardump 5 days ago | parent [-]

The air purity requirements for fuel cells are rather demanding. Impurities will destroy them.

ICE air filter would destroy them in no time.

Kirby64 5 days ago | parent [-]

Hm, I looked up how much a Toyota mirai filter is and they’re quite expensive. $270 it looks like from a 3rd party? It’s every 36k miles though. Not every year/12k like a normal air filters.

7e 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, hydrogen cars clean the air as your drive them.