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No. In 2020 the police went to a magistrate judge to ask for a warrant. The judge issued the warrant. Five years later, another judge has determined that the warrant should not have been issued in the first place.

That is not the fault of the police, and there is no reason to punish them for it.

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RHSeeger 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> That is not the fault of the police, and there is no reason to punish them for it.

It's not punishing the police. It's not allowing them to use evidence that they shouldn't have been allowed to gather.

Fining them, firing them, and/or jailing them for breaking the law; those would be ways of punishing them. That's not what is being discussed here. Admittedly, we pretty much _never_ punish police no matter what they do, so it's kind of a moot point.

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multjoy 5 days ago | parent [-]

They were allowed to gather the evidence - they had a warrant from a judge. The judge erred, not the police.

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gylterud 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

But the point is justice for the people put through curt. It does not matter to them whose mistake it was.

	▲	vermilingua 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		No, that is not the point. Common law does not exist to render justice to the people in and of itself, it exists to give the people a mechanism of getting that justice themselves. I expect anyone that was convicted due to this dragnet would now be able to appeal.

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9dev 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Explain again why the police is "punished" if someone isn’t detained in court?

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RHSeeger 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Where is it written that, if a judge tells a police officer they can do something, they are legally allowed to do it, no matter how blatantly illegal it is? I'm open to being corrected, but I have a hard time believing that, if a judge told a officer they have permission to go out an summarily execute 40 random people in the mall, it would be legal for the officer to do so. And once _anything_ can be illegal even if a judge tells them two, you're now in a grey area figuring out what is/isn't illegal.

At the moment, I would believe they were both wrong, and that the officer broke the law. I _think_ the judge also broke the law, but I don't know exactly how that works.

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AStonesThrow 5 days ago | parent [-]

Who commands the police officer to do things? Is it his/her superior, or the judge directly?

If there is a chain of command in any police department or Sheriff's Office, then the judge is not going to jump that chain and interpose herself in giving orders to a lowest-level officer who is on-the-ground and doing things.

The order's going to go to the office of their commander, who's going to evaluate it, and then it'll go through proper channels, so by the time your hypthetical "Police Officer in Summary Execution of 40 Innocent Consumers" then the order's been interdicted or validated as totally within the law as they interpret it?

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RHSeeger 4 days ago | parent [-]

I think there's a disconnect in the way we're looking at this. It seems like you feel the person who told the officers to "go do this" is at fault, and anyone who did <this> isn't. I feel strongly that both are at fault. If a mob boss orders a murder and a hitman carries it out, they're both at fault. Same deal here.

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AStonesThrow 4 days ago | parent [-]

“You feel”? Who is “you”? Are you referring to me? I have no feelings or judgement on any particular case. I have no facts about them. I don’t care because I am not involved and I am not in authority.

Please do not ascribe judgements to me that I am not making. I was simply asking questions to clarify a typical process that may be hypothetically followed. Thank you.

	▲	RHSeeger 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Sorry, there's multiple people in the conversation. I was originally speaking to the person that said this > They were allowed to gather the evidence - they had a warrant from a judge. The judge erred, not the police. And that statement makes it very clear that, if the judge gives the ok to do something, then the judge is at fault; and _not_ the person that actually does the thing. I disagree with this. The person who does the thing is responsible for their own actions. The judge may _also_ be at fault, but that doesn't absolve the officer who took the action. Your response (in the context of what I said) >> if a judge tells a police officer they can do something > Who commands the police officer to do things? Is it his/her superior, or the judge directly? Seems to indicate you think I said the judge is the one who ordered the officer to do the thing. I didn't. I said the judge gave permission for it. To be very clear, in a situation where 1. Tier 1 officer orders Tier 2 officer to have a thing done 2. Tier 2 officer orders Tier 3 officer to do the thing 3. Judge authorizes Tier 3 officer to do the thing 4. Tier 3 officer does the thing If "the thing" is clearly illegal (to a reasonable person), then ALL of those individuals are at fault. And Tier 3 officer clearly broke the law when doing the thing. I believe that

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Vegenoid 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The evidence can be suppressed without punishing the police.

	▲	5 days ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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autoexec 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Really we should be punishing the judge who approved it in the first place. A judge that violates the rights of the people shouldn't be allowed to be a judge.

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equinoxnemesis 5 days ago | parent [-]

There is obviously a line between what is and is not a permissible search somewhere and it's virtually inevitable that judicial rulings will from time to time err on both sides of that line (and they do). Punishing judges for ruling in ways which are later overturned would destroy rule of law at a fundamental level.

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autoexec 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Punishing judges for ruling in ways which are later overturned would destroy rule of law at a fundamental level.

Not where people's most fundamental rights are concerned. What it would do is cause judges to err on the side of caution before making a ruling that would violate the constitution which is exactly what we want judges to do.

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rainsford 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's obviously unworkable if you consider that even the Supreme Court's interpretation of fundamental rights can change over time. If a future Supreme Court overturns a prior Supreme Court decision in a way that expands a particular right, do we punish all the judges who followed the previous precedent? If we do, then we have a judicial system that encourages individual judges to ignore the Supreme Court, which doesn't seem like a good setup.

But more fundamentally, the system you're proposing doesn't just incentivize judges to err on the side of caution, it incentivizes them to never rule in favor of the government and just punt the decision to the next level. If the cost of ever being overturned on appeal in favor of an individual's rights is losing their job, while there is no corresponding downside of ruling the other way, there's basically no reason to ever risk granting a warrant, for example.

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immibis 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Then a Republican judge could just rule that obviously constitutional things were unconstitutional and punish all judges who don't agree, right?

	▲	autoexec 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Judges who violate the basic rights of other judges would also be subject to some level of accountability though. At a certain point, we have to trust government officials to at least attempt to do their jobs and we need to have ways to address the situation when they don't. It shouldn't matter if that judge is a democrat or a republican. Right now there is currently zero accountability. At best, when a judge violates people's constitutional rights some small number of those people will be able to get an unjust ruling overturned at which point they might be released from prison or might get some monetary payout at the expense of taxpayers, but the judge is still free to do whatever they want without consequence knowing that at least a few people will be unable to assert their rights. Considering that unaccountable judges are where we're starting from, I think having a means to make judges accountable can only improve things. Given the choice between judges being able to violate people's rights without any accountability or a system where judges have some level of accountability for the most egregious violations of our rights, even while that system requires us to make sure that it isn't being clearly abused, I think we're better off with the option to get some accountability where it's needed. It doesn't need to be a perfect system to be a better one, and it feels like we could put some guardrails in place to keep the amount of obvious abuse down. It's difficult to believe that judges willfully violating people's rights without consequence is an unsolvable problem, let alone one that couldn't possibly be improved somehow.

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AngryData 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The Rule of Law is already being broken by a judge saying the law doesn't matter when it is convenient to getting a conviction, meanwhile for normal citizens ignorance of the law is not a defense.