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> But ask yourself: "Which party supports actual election integrity more? The one that insists on US citizens voting in person with valid id (nothing special, just the id that we all need to get by in society),

You mean the ID that around 21 million US citizens who are eligible to vote do not have and don't have the time and/or money to get that ID? Here's a comment that contains links to a whole bunch of articles covering this, many of which contain extensive links to sources [1].

It is cute how some people can simultaneously believe that (1) you need the type of ID that Republican voter ID laws require for voting in order to get by in society (and so everyone already has the ID they need), and (2) there are tens of millions of illegal aliens who have been living in this country long term (and hence are obviously getting by).

This implies either that you don't actually need such ID to get by or that illegal aliens can easily obtain such ID (which makes the ID law ineffective at preventing fraud).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609

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wakawaka28 a day ago | parent [-]

>You mean the ID that around 21 million US citizens who are eligible to vote do not have and don't have the time and/or money to get that ID? Here's a comment that contains links to a whole bunch of articles covering this, many of which contain extensive links to sources [1].

That is all a bunch of hogwash. Most people can get ID for like $20 from their state. Even if I accept it, the answer is not to lower standards. It is to actually help these people get the ID that they need. Anything else permits rampant fraud. This is so obvious that I have to assume people like you are malicious actors, with all due respect.

>you need the type of ID that Republican voter ID laws require for voting in order to get by in society (and so everyone already has the ID they need),

Is there any case where a state ID such as a driver's license is not adequate? I don't even care. Go try to open a bank account or cash a check without ID. Everyone will tell you GTFO if you don't have the same type of ID needed to vote.

>there are tens of millions of illegal aliens who have been living in this country long term (and hence are obviously getting by)

These people are issued ID, and besides that they often work for cash or in other ways that dodge the law.

>This implies either that you don't actually need such ID to get by or that illegal aliens can easily obtain such ID (which makes the ID law ineffective at preventing fraud).

If there is simply a field on your ID that says if you are a citizen, and that shit is verified at the time you register to vote or at the time you actually vote, it would be as effective as the enforcement. We have Democrat precincts where poll workers have been forbidden from asking for ID. It is pure insanity, so egregious that it seems engineered to outrage everyone with a shred of common sense. I keep having to mention all of these things on this site amid a flurry of downvotes because too many "hackers" have drank the Kool-Aid.

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tzs 20 hours ago | parent [-]

> That is all a bunch of hogwash. Most people can get ID for like $20 from their state

There's also the cost of finding and getting copies of supporting documents, which are often in another state (e.g., the state you were born in, not the state you now live in). Records for many older Americans have not been digitized or even centralized so if your family moved when you were very young you may have to search the physical records in multiple counties to find yours.

> Even if I accept it, the answer is not to lower standards. It is to actually help these people get the ID that they need.

Obviously, but the same people passing voter ID laws are also making it harder for people to get ID. They reduce the number of offices that issue IDs, with the reductions disproportionately being in districts that tend to not vote for the people who are passing those laws. They say it is because those districts have much lower drivers per capita so don't need as many DMVs (which are usually the offices that deal with ID).

In the offices that remain they'll reduce the hours in which IDs are issued, getting rid of evening and weekend hours. For many poor people that can mean a full day of lost work to go try to get an ID, and many cannot afford that. Besides the loss of a day's pay these places often have terrible public transit so they are looking at an expensive ride on commercial transportation.

For people in low income jobs these barriers can be huge.

> Anything else permits rampant fraud

Then how come no one has been able to actually find evidence of such fraud? No matter how well funded the search they all come up empty.

> Go try to open a bank account or cash a check without ID. Everyone will tell you GTFO if you don't have the same type of ID needed to vote

23% of people earning under $25k/year do not have bank accounts but manage just fine. On that comment I gave you early with all the links to research that you ignored, someone asked how people live without ID and I posted a response there covering some of the ways they get buy.

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wakawaka28 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Look, I don't like waiting at the DMV either but doing it for a few hours every four to eight years is part of life. I don't believe anyone with a job is actually disenfranchised by this requirement. If they won't do that, then they won't register to vote either. In many cases, you can simultaneously get ID and register to vote too. By the way you can't get a job legally without providing ID, unless you are working gig jobs for cash. The elderly are often given IDs that don't expire.

I might be biased but I don't want people who can't manage to get or keep an ID telling us how to run the country. If you can't manage such a basic task, then you can't run your own life and have no business having a say in how other people live or die. That said, the real solution that would make everyone happy is to subsidize the issuance of ID somehow and to make employers accommodate the required absences. We do that for jury duty, more or less, so we can do it for ID and voting too. The solution is definitely never going to be to get stupid and have zero requirements for ID at the polls.

	▲	fc417fc802 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> don't believe anyone with a job is actually disenfranchised by this requirement. You are betraying your own ignorance. You clearly have never associated with people from a ghetto if you are saying that. > If you can't manage such a basic task, then you can't run your own life and have no business having a say in how other people live or die. There's probably some merit to that but I think it would really depend on why. If you can't in the sense that you just don't follow through that's one thing. Whereas working the same hours that the ID office is open, not having PTO, being unable to afford taking unpaid time off, not being able to afford a personal vehicle; if you can't simply because you are poor that hardly seems a reasonable basis to disenfranchise someone. If nothing else, it certainly isn't consistent with either the word or the spirit of the current law. If you want to change that then the appropriate course of action is to lobby the general public for it. If you believe you won't manage to convince them then I would like to suggest that it is your views that have no business being imposed on others. Oh and the kicker? It's a poor filter anyway, at least for the purpose that you stated. Someone who doesn't work will have little issue passing it since he has no scheduling conflict with office hours and what's a multi-hour trip on public transit to him?