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> If you've made up your mind (even if, theoretically, it could be changed) why would you have an argument about it in the first place?

Because, in most of those cases, my mind is made up given the information I’d had access to and the points I’ve seen/heard made regarding the topic up to this point. If an argument brings up new (to me) points and information, it is all a fair game, and I am not holding onto my “already made up” position that dearly. If I consider a position “already made up,” it is usually due to me rarely encountering anything new on that topic. But I am not going to pre-emptively declare “my mind is made up, and nothing can change it,” all it could take is a single piece of new info or a new point that I was yet to encounter.

TLDR: the entire meaning of “my mind is made up on this topic already” to me personally is “over a course of a long time, I am yet to encounter any new materially relevant info on the topic that could change my mind, and all i keep hearing is the same stuff I heard before (but I am willing to change my perspective if there are any new and relevant points), so I expect the likelihood of my mind being changed on this to be low (given the low likelihood of any new relevant info being introduced)”.

> Argument is there to explore that to which you have not yet made a mind. Your mind won't change because there is no basis on which to change from.

Agreed wholeheartedly, except i would completely remove the “that to which you have not yet made a mind” part.

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9rx 5 days ago | parent [-]

> I am not holding onto my “already made up” position that dearly.

Perhaps this is just semantics, then? I wouldn't make up my mind until there is effectively no chance of there being an alternative I've overlooked. I'm confident enough in the available information to make up my mind that 1+1 does equal 2 (a topic I would find no interest in discussing further at this point; there is good reason we don't sit around all day talking about that), but for most things I don't have a mind made.

If you can't hold it dearly, is your mind really made?

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filoleg 5 days ago | parent [-]

Using your specific example: I consider my mind to be made up on 1+1=2, because I have zero idea what kind of a new information one could bring up to make me consider 1+1 not being equal 2.

I am open to someone making such a point, I just consider the likelihood of that happening being insanely low (given the points I’ve encountered so far on that topic).

All that “i made up my mind” means to me personally (stressing this part, because i know for a fact that it means an absolute “i won’t change my mind on this no matter what evidence you provide” to a lot of people) is “given all prior attempts and the evidence on the topic, I believe it is extremely unlikely you will manage to bring up any new legitimate argument to support your position, but I am open to hearing out what you got.”

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9rx 5 days ago | parent [-]

> I am open to someone making such a point

Someone else is not you presenting an argument. You making an argument about what you know about 1+1=2 is what is boring. Let's be real: You're not going to do it. Why would you? You are already confident in your understanding.

I mean, do it if you want. I'm not sure why you'd waste your time, though. You aren't going to gain anything from it.

Only if you really had no idea what is going on and wish to understand a topic in more detail would you go down the road of getting into an argument. But when you are in that state you are not in a position to have made a mind.

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filoleg 5 days ago | parent [-]

Agreed, I would not start an argument in favor of 1+1=2, just like I wouldn’t start an argument about sky being blue on a sunny day, because most people would just agree with me. The whole point of an argument is exploring ideas and learning something new, and I have zero new info on those topics that would go against what most already believe.

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9rx 5 days ago | parent [-]

> The whole point of an argument is exploring ideas and learning something new

Exactly. Which is why argumentation becomes boring once you are at the point where you feel there is nothing left that you can learn. Not only does it become boring, but it encroaches on the time you have to broach subjects you want to learn about, so there is great incentive to move on for that reason as well.

But when you are in a state where you still feel there is something left to learn, where you might drum up an argument to continue to learn and explore, you're not going to make a mind. That would be nonsensical.

So the idea of argument changing your mind isn't practical, even if theoretically possible. During argument, there is no mind to change. Once a mind is made, argument ceases (fake argument with ulterior motives aside).

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filoleg 5 days ago | parent [-]

I feel like we broadly agree and are just griping over the semantics of what “made up my mind” means.

> argumentation becomes boring once you are at the point where you feel there is nothing left that you can learn

Agreed, but here is the thing: there are plenty of topics on which I feel like “there is nothing left to learn,” but that doesn’t mean to me personally that there is nothing left, it just means I believe it is extremely unlikely to find anything new. Just by the definition, I wouldn’t know if there was anything new I haven’t learned yet, otherwise I would’ve went and learned it myself already. So that potentially new stuff would have to come from elsewhere.

However, I can definitely express my belief in the likelihood of discovering something new on the topic being extremely low, which is what i count as “i made up my mind” for myself personally.

	▲	9rx 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		> I feel like we broadly agree I am not sure I am in a proper place to agree or disagree. I'm still in argument mode, which means I don't understand the topic well enough to be in a state where I could agree or disagree. I do hope to get there someday, but when I do get there you aren't to hear more from me on the subject! I'll have grown bored of it and will be on to the next. Such is the human condition.