Remix clone Hacker News

Well if Microsoft was as serious about security as they could be, they would have made sure the NT6 boot routine would boot Linux without needing Grub a long time ago.

With the resources they have, and these unique findings AI has helped them discover, they should now be in the ideal position to rapidly correct this deficiency in their own bootloader, so that nobody will ever need to use Grub again.

With this level of expertise, now enhanced by AI, and so much effort already behind them so far, it shouldn't take much to push this over the finish line, provided they have an effective enough organization when it comes to enhancing the security of PC users overall. After all, they don't even have to worry about addressing Macs.

I know the engineers are brilliant enough by far, and with nothing holding them back, we should be able to expect a minor revision of of the NT bootloader like this to be arriving any day now.

According to what I see in the article, this would be one of the most timely & useful security patches to show up on Windows Update, I hope they don't drop the ball on this one.

Patch Tuesday is next week but they seem so close they could probably push this critical correction out before that, so watch for it :)

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mystified5016 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've always thought it was exceptionally clear that Microsoft emphatically does not want you to dualboot.

That's why we got secure boot and why windows absolutely clobbers any other bootloaders during install, updates, and random points in between. It's why we have WSL.

I'll bet good money that Microsoft never even considers what you propose. It's antithetical to the mission of "lock all possible users into ad revinue streams". Microsoft won't get their windows ad impressions if they allow you to use a different OS on the hardware you own.

	▲	heelix 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I'll be pissed if they broke my Ubuntu instance ...again under the guise of security.

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cmurf 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't understand why you think GRUB is required. Or what boot sequence (or use case) involves UEFI > NT6 > GRUB > linux.

Are you wanting bootmgr.efi to learn how to read arbitrary Linux filesystems, bootloader configurations, and EFISTUB? Why?

Windows supports setting a one time boot using a UEFI BootNext NVRAM variable, directly boots shim.efi, doesn't involve bootmgr.efi

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fuzzfactor 5 hours ago | parent [-]

>what boot sequence (or use case) involves UEFI > NT6 > GRUB > linux.

Good example of a nonideal approach, but I would settle for that since at least it's better than how UEFI has developed so far.

I think the "default" sequence for new (naturally Windows-preinstalled) PC's is simply UEFI > NT6 bootloader > Windows.

On mainstream PC's like this, for users to include Linux if they want to (without disturbing Windows) it should be a straightforward option to install Linux to its own partition, and end up with UEFI > NT6 bootloader > Windows or Linux. Your choice by paying attention to the built-in NT6 bootmenu upon power up, whenever you don't want to boot automatically to the default OS.

With exactly the same workflow as you used to be able to with BIOS. I know there are subsurface differences, but always hold out hope that maybe someone will be advanced enough to handle this much abstraction ;)

This deficiency was not a factor before UEFI struck, since the NT6 bootloader would start Linux under BIOS with no problem. Still will, and Grub will still start Windows, working smoother than ever even in UEFI. NT5 bootloader was even good enough, and you can probably go back to NT3.

>Windows supports setting a one time boot using a UEFI BootNext NVRAM variable, directly boots shim.efi, doesn't involve bootmgr.efi

Even better than that, both Windows and Linux are complete enough as an OS, that if either of their bootloaders are properly installed & configured, then no NVRAM variables need to be depended on whatsoever. Those variables are functionally just a shortcut or fallback which can compensate for lingering defects.

Plus I never thought Grub was required, I always prefer Syslinux.

No matter what, there's not supposed to be any need for a shim.

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cmurf 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>end up with UEFI > NT6 bootloader > Windows or Linux

I don't see any advantage to involving Microsoft in the boot process.

>paying attention to the built-in NT6 bootmenu

UEFI firmware vendors provide a boot manager (the UI) for choosing what installed OS to boot. Apple has offered a graphical boot manager (option key at the boot chime) since forever.

NT6 isn't free or open source software so I don't see the various Linux projects wanting NT6 involved at all, in either the single or dual boot use case.

But in effect you're proposing different boot paths, and different UI/UX depending on whether the system is Linux-only or dual boot Windows Linux.

>This deficiency was not a factor before UEFI struck

I can't tell what deficiency you think UEFI has that BIOS didn't have. But maybe you don't like specs? Or are you referring to the much latter added UEFI Secure Boot?

>No matter what, there's not supposed to be any need for a shim.

You seem to think Microsoft wants to be in the business of executing arbitrary and unsigned code, despite all efforts proving the opposite.

	▲	fuzzfactor an hour ago \| parent [-]
		>I don't see any advantage to involving Microsoft in the boot process. Good point. Me neither, never have, But if they're already there within the PC in some way or another, ideally they should gracefully be able to accomodate Linux under UEFI as easily as it still works when using BIOS. >in effect you're proposing different boot paths, and different UI/UX depending on whether the system is Linux-only or dual boot Windows Linux. Not proposing. Been living it for decades. It's only broken under UEFI. Even on my average pure Windows machine, I normally have about 4 distinct boot paths for each OS using various instances of the NT6 bootloader. Not counting the option of whipping up an emergency boot floppy which can still be made for modern Windows use if all else failed. Experience has shown, the more viable boot paths, and the fewer obstacles, the greater reliability. >You seem to think Microsoft wants to be in the business of executing arbitrary and unsigned code Nope, that's just how they started out and ended up outgrowing IBM. I remember it well, those days are long over. Likewise, there should never have been any need for Linux to involve any Microsoft code or signing, like SecureBoot, in order to perform on the most secure new PC's without requiring any different default UEFI settings than Windows.

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dismalaf 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> nobody will ever need to use Grub again.

I mean, I replaced Grub with systemd-boot awhile back...