Remix clone Hacker News

Dude I live in a hyper red state. The majority of people I know have basically the same common values as friends in Santa Cruz. Now switch to talk in 'propagandized' terms and it switches to extreme, but remove that and just talk and there isn't much difference.

They want immigrants gone, but every immigrant they know is hardworking good people and THEY should be allowed to stay.

They want crime tougher but their friend who fell out of the world because of fent/mexis they wish could get help not prison.

They want capitalism but love their communal national forests and depend on it's deer/elk meat as a huge (normally the majority) source of their protein.

They want smaller government/less government services. But their mom is dependant on government services, and their cousin with a disabled kid wouldn't survive without government help/the school specialized help so that is needed/valued, and when they were kids were dependant at points on government food programs so those are needed.

But one party talks down to them, says they live in flyover country, and promotes people like Jon Stewart unfairly skewering people they see as like them as it's 'entertainment', while the other party pretends it thinks they have value. So they choose the party, eat up the propaganda, that treats them like people/with at least some dignity.

▲

NoMoreNicksLeft 19 hours ago | parent [-]

>They want immigrants gone, but every immigrant they know is hardworking good people

Immigrants are, in large part, hard-working and decent people. I'd laugh my ass off at the suggestion that I could outwork any day laborer I've seen as I drive past Home Depot. Some drink and get a little rowdy, but not to a degree that would bother me if a citizen did so. That doesn't mean that I'm happy for them to be here, though. Our costs go up as they need to rent and make purchases too. Just because I don't want to pick apples for a living doesn't mean that their presence doesn't mean fewer jobs for Americans in general. Our culture changes in ways that can't be managed. None of these side effects are the sort that can be mitigated without drastically reducing immigration, both of the legal and illegal sort.

I don't really want the Chinese setting up secret police stations in my country, or blackmailing every immigrant (even those naturalized as our own citizens) to perform espionage on their behalf. Russians do this shit too. Do you?

All the rest of your concerns I suspect I'm more in agreement with you, but the immigration thing isn't good for anyone. These countries are being brain-drained by those who could fix things at home. Who could stop wars and other large-scale abuses. Who could be building the businesses that would life their people out of poverty. But they're over here trying to make a buck.

	▲	_DeadFred_ 16 hours ago \| parent [-]
		" Our costs go up as they need to rent and make purchases too." Would you support planned population control when it comes to births as well? 2 child policies? Are you pro-abortion because it means less competition for housing/jobs? Are you for government controlled population resettlement of American citizens within the United States to level out where housing demand is high versus low? My family all spoke German and lived in a german speaking town in Iowa (a state that 'their people' flooded with their immigration without asking the American's that lived there) up until WW2, they are American and American culture, but your proposal would have deported them because they didn't speak English/were changing the culture in ways that can't be managed and banned them from moving there. My mom a descendant of 'non-assimulatable Germans corrupting culture in America' was a controller at multiple software companies in the Bay Area. Sun-bleached blond blue eyed me played high school football (a sport of immigrant kids arguing over rules of the british sports it ended up springing from), surfed (why are Americans importing polynesian culture and ruining America?), restored muscle cars (America is polluting it's culture popularizing the GTO, it doesn't even have an English language name), and wrote software in Santa Cruz (Bay Area software owes hugely to immigrants). The amount of AMAZING people, the ginormous amount of talent capital the Bay Area gained when Tiananmen happened causing a huge portion of the Chinese students in the US to want to/be allowed to stay makes me call BS on whatever fear mongering you are putting in your China argument that you think can't be addressed by standard laws. I love chinese people. Heck I love China, have you been there? Yeah there are differences that need to be addressed, but how about we address them instead of using those issues/differences to delegitimize an entire population of people? Immigration is HUGELY beneficials to the US. Do you care about money? It costs minimum $250,000 to the parents to have a child. Another $10-20,000 per year in schooling costs to the government Added insurance cost to businesses when children are born/added to the plan. Instead of more housing like you would like, families tend to prefer larger, more suburban homes, reducing housing density and therefor reducing supply and raising costs. To get a wholy formed new worker for free is a huge boost to the country. There is a town in Santa Cruz called Watsonville. I'm pretty sure it would meet your culture whatever BS because it is heavily latino so wrongculture. Guess what, before that when you probably would have given it a pass in your 'culture' test, it was Polish. And guess what, it didn't meet the THEN culture America First test of being American because it was filled with eastern Europeans poles.