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> the alternative to "liberal hegemony" in places like Iraq, Libya, Ukraine and Syria is nuclear proliferation and human rights abuses.

IMHO, US intervention in Iraq, Libya, Ukraine or Syria increased human rights abuses as long as you include violent death in the definition of "human rights abuse".

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bigyabai 21 hours ago | parent [-]

The problem with expanding the definition like that is that it also includes the violent death of the aggressing coalition. We could argue that America's relationship with the PKK or Peshmega was "human rights abuse" under that sort of umbrella. Or you could go full stupid-mode and argue that the Vietnam War was an attack on American human rights, foisted onto Northern Korea under the evil auspices of... checks clipboard ...American-provided military regiments.

Again, read what I said and not what you think I meant. The alternative to "liberal hegemony" in the examples you provided are uniquely catastrophic and inherently impact America. You cannot even fathom what 9/11 would have looked like if the US treated Balkan denuclearization as a back-burner issue.

Yes, it sucks the absolute biggest dick that we have to send American troops to defend these interests. No, it is not a good enough reason to forfeit being a world superpower and let ourselves get glassed because AIPAC has American politicians by the balls.

	▲	hollerith 20 hours ago \| parent [-]
		>the alternative to "liberal hegemony" in places like Iraq, Libya, Ukraine and Syria is nuclear proliferation The West persuaded Qaddafi to give up his nukes, then a few years went by, then the West helped Libyan rebels overthrow Qaddafi, resulting in his violent death. Since the world was watching, good luck now trying to persuade any other leader to give up his nukes in the future. I'm not objecting to the West's having persuaded Qaddafi to give up his nukes; I'm objecting to the West's putting him in mortal peril after he cooperated to give up his nukes. (Much of the help given to the rebels consisted of Western bombers attacking Libyan governmental installations. If Libya still had nukes, the West would not have dared to use their bombers in that way.) So, explain to me again how the agenda and approach I am criticizing (which has been called "liberal hegemony") helps control nuclear proliferation. Also: I always thought that any attempt to obtain a nuke by the leadership of Iraq ended before the US took over that country.