| ▲ | bell-cot a day ago |
| There's a highly emotional Right-Left culture war going on in America. Many of our "flagship" universities conspicuously sided with the Left - at least on most of the "litmus test" issues. And where universities didn't do that, the Right found it advantageous to talk up the association & outrage anyway. Any decent History Prof. could have explained to the U's that openly taking one side in long-term cultural wars was not a viable long-term strategy. (Or, maybe that's why so many universities cut their History Dept's so brutally? Though "just shoot inconvenient messengers" is also not a viable long-term strategy.) |
|
| ▲ | Aeolun 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Many of our "flagship" universities conspicuously sided with the Left I wonder if that’s related to universities often being places where ‘reasoning’ is taught. And then by extension, that tells you a lot about the arguments on either side… |
| |
| ▲ | concordDance 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | I probably have a skewed sample, but in my observations those with the best reasoning skills tended to have a mix of views that would be labelled "left" and "right". The better the reasoning skills the less likely they were to just agree with things like "trans women are women" or "capitalism is the best economic system" and the more likely they were to dissect the statement and terms. |
|
|
| ▲ | matthewdgreen a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The culture war was over about sixty days into the Trump administration. Lots of people just haven't realized it yet. |
| |
| ▲ | marcosdumay 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Hum, kinda. Trump has tainted a lot of concepts by associating with them, and those should fall outside of our culture as soon as he loses power. But there's an entire other set of equivalently bad-faith exclusionary and authoritarian ones that presented as in opposition of them. Those weren't actually very powerful before, but may get empowered depending on how things go. |
|
|
| ▲ | mrtesthah a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Billionaires shifted the overton window by pouring money into extreme right-wing media outlets and social media platforms. Every other existing institution now appears "left-wing" by comparison. That's not universities' fault. |
| |
| ▲ | lmm a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Not true, at least on social issues, which is what the universities are getting burned for. Policy positions that were mainstream in 2000 are now painted as far-right. | | |
| ▲ | jhbadger a day ago | parent | next [-] | | That's how society progresses though. Before 1865, slavery was mainstream and abolitionists were weird radical crazies. Before 1965, "Jim Crow" laws that said non-whites had to use different bathrooms and drinking fountains were mainstream, and people who opposed them were seen as unreasonable. | | |
| ▲ | lmm a day ago | parent [-] | | And back in the 1960s a planned economy was normal and reasonable, and many progressives openly called for normalisation of sex with teenagers. Sometimes shifts in attitudes are progress. Sometimes they're just a random walk. Sometimes the left is right, sometimes the right is. | | |
| ▲ | Duwensatzaj 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | Eugenics as in forcible sterilization of the “unfit” was similarly Progressive back in the early 20th. |
|
| |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Policy positions that were mainstream in 2000 are now painted as far-right. Such as? | | |
| ▲ | jibe 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | gay marriage? | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | Presumably you mean opposition to gay marriage? | | |
| ▲ | jibe 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, opposition to gay marriage was so mainstream that even Barack Obama campaigned supporting Clinton's Defense of Marriage Act. Even in the Democratic primaries, as late as 2008, being pro gay marriage was seen as a liability. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't know that it's painted as far right as much as conservative (which it is) and by some as bigoted. The Overton Window moves. Upper marginal tax rates above 90% were not just a position but the actual law in USA during the 1960s, but now are seen here as "far left". Seatbelt requirements were initially felt to be over-intrusion by government, and are now seen by almost everyone as just common sense. And so on and so forth. |
|
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | gedy a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Honestly man since the fall of the Berlin Wall, the left in the US threw their whole weight into pushing the Overton window on identity politics/intersectionality to the point that "real" old time leftists and communists (like my father) were treated like some sort of conservatives, lol. They went way past the sustainable point. | | |
| ▲ | xracy 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I feel like the people who say things like "communists were treated like some sort of conservatives because of identity politics" are telling on themselves. If you look at the people on the actual political left in the US (Bernie, AOC, etc) are they talking about identity politics? Last time I checked they were talking about the problems that impact non-billionaire Americans: Healthcare, Social Security, Raising Minimum Wage, and other efforts to improve quality of life for Americans. The only times I ever hear about identity politics is when I listen to conservatives describe what people on the left are talking about. | | |
| ▲ | nosianu 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > If you look at the people on the actual political left in the US (Bernie, AOC, etc) are they talking about identity politics? Great example! So... what happened to Bernie in the Democratic party? | | |
| ▲ | xracy 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm saying that the problem isn't identity politics, but that the American right is terrified of actual policies from the American Left. And they're so terrified they have to make a bid deal of the more divisive social policies (characteristic of the term "identity politics") rather than their economic policies that are incredibly popular. The majority of the Democratic party is the group being actually shifted by the Overton window away from the actual political left. They are mostly centrists, and not leftists. Frequently they are conservatives. I wish Harris suggested half of the policies that got ascribed to her, but she was honestly to the right of Clinton. |
| |
| ▲ | Ray20 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Healthcare, Social Security, Raising Minimum Wage, and other efforts to improve quality of life for Americans. But then why are they supported, for the most part, not by the most oppressed masses, but by the oppressive elites? | | |
| ▲ | xracy 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Gosh "who is an oppressive elite?" Musk, Trump and the billionaires in their administration sure look like "oppressive elites" to me. Can you name multiple oppressive elites? Edit: I think you answer your own question here. The actual oppressive elites have convinced the masses (and you) that there's a different amorphous group of "oppressive elites" that aren't the obvious ones standing right in front of your eyes. Obligatory https://xkcd.com/1013/ |
| |
| ▲ | milesrout 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They talk about identity politics all the time. It is us vs them on everything. Worker vs employer is the quintessential example. Two groups that in the real world must work together, and do. But in the mind of the political left they are not just people that occasionally have adverse interests but mostly shared interests (my success is yours). No, they are sworn enemies. | | |
| ▲ | xracy 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think you know what "identity politics" are, which is kinda funny to me. I would love to have discussions where identity politics meant "Worker vs Employer". Worker vs Employer aren't actually 2 groups of people, unless you really consider corporations as people. |
|
|
|
|
