Remix clone Hacker News

Yes, it's a race to the bottom. But politicians aren't demanding that we should accept slave labor to make our Nike shoes - Nike does that. Tariffs won't change that either, they simply put a price on dealing with "undesirable" labor that Americans wouldn't tolerate anyways. That's how free market economics work on the global stage, I don't think anything has changed in that regard in the past 50 years.

I guess I'm disenfranchised with the entire process, having grown up near Detroit. You won't bring these jobs back from Mexico, you won't onshore EV production from the grasp of China. GM said it, Tesla said it, Apple said it, and now you're listening to me repeat it. Americans can get mad at Europe or Denmark or Canada if it makes them feel better, but it's sure as shit not putting them on any short-lists for importing ASML or ARM IP. And we're fucked either way if we sit around waiting for Intel to "innovate" their way ahead. America can't lead the free world with a bum leg, it doesn't matter how icky China's politics are.

▲

alephnerd 2 days ago | parent [-]

> not putting them on any short-lists for importing ASML machinery

That ASML machinery in EUV and DUV is entirely manufactured in SoCal - ASML was the the commercialization partner in LLNL's Cymer Inc.

> or ARM IP

Designed in Austin Texas - right by Barton Creek - or in Bangalore next door to Samsung and Nvidia, and across the street from Google.

▲

fch42 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Final assembly != "entirely manufactured". Cymer brings the EUV lightsource, Zeiss the optics, ASML the mechanics and metrology. Commercial EUV Lithography system(s) aren't "a single parent's baby" even if there is now only a single supplier.

ARM IP ? I gather in Cambridge/UK they'd disagree with you. Even if in classical English stiff upper lip style they may say it less brashly (but not less harshly) than a Texan.

This World is rather intertwined. Maybe more than we like or even more than is good for us. But all of us will loose if we strive to kill cooperation or trade "across borders".

▲

alephnerd a day ago | parent [-]

The core EUV/DUV IP is co-owned by a mixture of National Labs, and much of the intermediate parts manufacturing has remained in the US as a result. It's not much of a check

> Zeiss the optics

Much of the photonics optics portion is in Dublin CA because of the DoE National Labs commercialization partnership

> ASML the mechanics and metrology

Much of which remains in California as well.

> I gather in Cambridge/UK they'd disagree with you. Even if in classical English stiff upper lip style they may say it less brashly (but not less harshly) than a Texan

Maybe, maybe not.

Hiring data (both open jobs as well as LinkedIn) show otherwise. Their design presence in UK and US is similar in size, and the India one is not far behind.

> This World is rather intertwined

I agree, but the world is not going to end with a goods tariff.

Canada and Mexico have been exempted (thank goodness Congress held the admin accountable), and much of the Americas, Australia, UK, and Philippines have been given a lower tariff slab.

Semiconductors, Pharmaceuticals, Services, Automtive intermediate parts, and a couple other high value goods have been exempted.

The only industries this really hurts is apparel and textiles (never coming back to America anyhow, but now it will return to Latin America) and assembled electronics (consumer electronics will not return to the US either, but Mexico and Brazil are now cost competitive over China and Vietnam).

This kind of a change was inevitable - we faced similar consternation from Europe when we rolled out the IRA under the Biden admin, and we never rolled back the initial tariffs from Trump 1. There is bipartisan appetite for this kind of an action (more planned mind you) but still the principle of supporting American industries either thru subsidies like under Biden or autaurky like under Trump holds.

Now go back to selling off your Satelite players (Eutelsat, OneWeb), Steel manufacturers (Port Talbot), telecom (BT), and battery (Faradion) players to Indian companies like Bharti, Tata, and Reliance.

	▲	fch42 19 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> > [ on ARM ] > Hiring data (both open jobs as well as LinkedIn) show otherwise. Their design presence in UK and US is similar in size, and the India one is not far behind. If you're saying here that ARM is a company with a large and near-even (by headcount) presence in three countries (and much more distributed overall), then I agree with you fully. Else, what was your point again ? You said in your first post that a majority of ARM (based on what metric?) comes off Austin, and that is not true by your own later words. Anyway, I also agree we should be proud of the work done by companies such as (for example) ASML or ARM. Irrespective of where that happens, to be honest.

▲

bigyabai 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm assuming that America isn't a kleptocracy, which I will admit is an unfair benefit of the doubt.

	▲	alephnerd 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		This tariff was a change that was inevitable irrespective of party. I have qualms with it's messaging and rollout, but it's something that both parties were increasingly aligning towards. Anyhow, what's done is done, and now it's cheaper to purchase intermediate parts like PLCs from Germany (20% overall tariff) or Japan (24% overall tariff) than it is from China (54% overall tariff) or an iPhone assembled in Mexico (NAFTA has been exempted from these tariffs thanks to Congress) or a Nike shoe assembled in Philippines (17% overall tariff) than in Vietnam (49% overall tariff). Those jobs weren't coming back to the US, and if they were they would be anyhow be automated, but at least we can reduce some dependency on China, and give breathing room to either us or our allies to build some capacity. > Kleptocracy Not yet using the formal definition, but absolutely autarkic now like before the 1990s