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▲ roflyear 2 days ago

Well, let's see how that plays out first, I did just post it a few minutes ago (refresh has me at 0 karma fyi)

▲Lerc 2 days ago | parent [-]

It is a shame that people will downvote a thing that is expressing an honest opinion.

I can't really relate to the mindset of people who use downvoting as a 'I disagree' button.

I don't think this extends to the way that HN is moderated or run. It is worth looking at dang's posts every now and again to take in the job that he does and how patient he can be, even with antagonism aimed directly at HN or himself personally.

From time to time I also have a look at the histories of some of those antagonistic people. Frequently there are signs that their behaviour was not always like this. Recent posts might be outright abusive and sound like the postings of angry teenagers. A few years earlier they might have been posting reasonable discussions on their thesis topic or tutorials on some useful subjects. Keeping that in mind helps you realise that these are real people and there may be other things going on in their life.

I think there are some good things to learn from people who work with addicts. You can simultaneously challenge bad behaviour and be compassionate to the person who committed it. Similarly, this is why I'm not a fan of cancelling people or holding them forever accountable for past bad behaviour. If they recognise that their behaviour was bad and are endeavouring to not be that way again, I don't think permanent ostracism benefits anyone. If anything it restricts people to a community that amplifies their negative behaviour.

▲pvg 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I can't really relate to the mindset of people who use downvoting as a 'I disagree' button.

That's a valid use of the button by design, HN is literally made to allow for that use. Plus it mimics real life interactions - there is a social cost/friction to saying things people disagree with or think are outright wrong. Most online chitchat places deteriorate because they remove such social frictions.

▲Lerc 2 days ago | parent [-]

I would say it mimics real life interactions of some communities. I do not think that is universal. I tend to think that the communities, in real life and online, that permit civil discussion of dissenting opinions are the healthier ones.

I think there is a far greater real life social cost in violating standards of behaviour, such as aggressive engagement, or acting without empathy. I would argue that it is those influences that can be lacking in online discussions that cause them to deteriorate. There is also a lower barrier of entry for joining an online community than joining a real life community. A few dedicated but detrimental people can always evade safeguards and pollute a community to some degree, online communities being larger provide the possibility to each individual to do more damage, while also increasing the chances of there being individuals that would do so.

▲pvg 2 days ago | parent [-]

I would say it mimics real life interactions of some communities. I do not think that is universal.

I would say this is straight up wrong. It is universal since it's fundamental to being a social animal. There's a cost to being at odds with a group. We do have all sorts of mechanism and rituals, formal and informal, to minimize or amortize that cost in all sorts of settings but it's still there and it's still essential. You look at the faces of your coworkers in a meeting in which you're making some unpopular proposal to see how it's going over and you feel the slight sting of recognizing the smallest hints of disapproval. It's built right into all human interaction.

▲Lerc 2 days ago | parent [-]

I guess we shall have to agree to disagree there.

▲wglb 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I can't really relate to the mindset of people who use downvoting as a 'I disagree' button.

Downvoting is a legitimate expression of disagreement according to PG.

▲roflyear 2 days ago | parent [-]

He's probably wrong about it. Imagine if you could do that in real life.