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Ah, so more bureaucracy, bureaucracy, bureaucracy.

28304283409234 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. Democracy's intent is not efficiency. It is to provide a rule of law that is fair enough for most citizens. All other forms of rule are worse. As soon as you have 'efficient government', you no longer have democracy. But something worse.

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mexicocitinluez 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This response is so funny to me.

You'll be on your knees begging for bureaucracy after all your info is sold to the highest bidder and you spend the next 20 years fighting identity theft.

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dionian 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Is DOGE releasing private info?

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mexicocitinluez 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know AND THAT'S THE POINT. No one knows. There is ZERO oversight except for a guy who just coincidentally made his billions on US government subsidies.

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hcurtiss 2 days ago | parent [-]

Neither was there before.

	▲	mexicocitinluez 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		hWUT? WTF are you talking about? What govt agency does haven't oversight the way DOGE does? Stop lying. congress didn't create DOGE. no one is overseeing that goon running it. you're a child if you believe the words coming out of his mouth

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lesuorac 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes.

They're using public LLMs to analyze it. Every single LLM provider collects the data you put into it.

There's also the NRO incident recently where they publicly released the classified org chart.

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actionfromafar 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

DOGE should not be even near private data without a clearance.

	▲	mexicocitinluez 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		I think that ship has sailed. His first term, he handed out security clearances to anyone who would ask. There is even less stopping him from just giving them out this term too.

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lucasRW 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.zetter-zeroday.com/court-documents-shed-new-ligh...

"New court documents shed light on what a 25-year-old DOGE employee named Marko Elez did inside Treasury Department payment systems. They also provide extensive new details about which systems Elez accessed, the security precautions Treasury IT staff took to limit his access and activity, and what changes he made to the systems. The documents indicate that the situation at Treasury is more nuanced than previously reported."

(...)

"Additionally, he could only connect using a government-issued laptop that had "cybersecurity tools" installed on it to prevent him from accessing web sites or cloud-based storage services with the laptop or connecting a USB or other external storage device to it to copy large amounts of data from Treasury systems. "

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mexicocitinluez 2 days ago | parent [-]

It's so funny you think quoting a newspaper that says some random staffer doesn't CURRENTLY have access is some sort of gotcha. Do you know how time works?

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lucasRW 2 days ago | parent [-]

Correction: - not quoting a newspaper, but court documents. - not a random staffer, but THE staffer you are so concerned about.

	▲	mrguyorama 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		No, you are quoting a newspaper "zetter-zeroday" which is talking about court documents. You are not quoting court documents. Also, not all court documents are the same. You can make whatever claims you want in some of them.
	▲	mexicocitinluez 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		THE staffer? I don't remember singling anyone out so I have no clue what you're talking. You're argument is "This document said this one dude isn't currently accessing the system" as if that somehow means they aren't going to in the future and or that other team members don't have access. What are you even talking about? No one is saying "It's all this guy"

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randerson 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Would you buy shares in a company if the sole auditor of their financials was the CEO's best friend, who had no experience or qualifications in auditing, and he was not accountable to anyone if he was wrong? "Trust me bro" does not cut it. These structures and processes can be onerous but they exist for good reason. BTW our government is not so strapped for cash that they can't afford to do this properly.

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snisarenko 2 days ago | parent [-]

Your analogy is absurd.

In a publicly traded company you get to chose whether to buy or sell the shares of a company based on how the CEO is running the company (including who he appoints to audit it)

In US Govt, we don't get to chose whether to "invest" in the govt or not, our taxes our collected by force.

So instead we have the power to vote for people in congress (who decide home much taxes are collected on how they are spend), and the president (who can execute on the spending directed by congress, but also has the power granted by constitution to audit and spend effiecntly)

The US Govt Shareholders (Voters) have SPOKEN, and SPOKEN LOUDLY! (Electoral College victory, and Popular Vote victory). They elected republican majority congress, and President Trump. Thus the voters voted for a deep gov't audit headed by Musk (Trump publicly campaigned on auditing and cleaning up spending, and publicly stated who will be in charge of the audit).

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randerson 2 days ago | parent [-]

The point I was trying to make is that DOGE is not doing a proper audit, and this should concern everyone including those who voted for him.

Many of the findings Musk has published have been proven to be mischaracterized or erroneous (numbers off by 1000x etc), which gives us grounds to question the rest. Except their process and data is opaque. Trump is firing entire departments based on this bad information. This could ironically _increase_ govt expenditure when they realizes we need to hire new people, possibly at higher salaries (after paying the old people a severance).

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snisarenko 2 days ago | parent [-]

Fair point. But i don't think a few mistaken reports, justifies calling it as an invalid audit.

They are auditing a Multi-Trillion bureaucratical behemoth (with terrible record keeping on top of it). Even a "certified auditor" can make a few mistakes.

Instead of focusing on onef misreported 8 billion line item, you should focus on the fact that they discovered 3 TRILLION in payments with no budgetary codes (literally TRILLIONS in blank untraceable checks)

I would rather have an businessman experienced making billion dollar companies efficient doing the audit, and doing it FAST, but making some mistakes.

Than having a typical beurocratic "certified auditor" audit, that does it slowly and won't even make a dent in a budget in a single year.

The US Govt is paying TRILLIONS in just INTEREST on the debt every year, and not even paying down the principal right now. And they have to borrow MORE MONEY, just to be able to cover the INTEREST payment next year. The US Gov't is in dire financial straights. We don't have time for a typical "bureaucratic auditors" auditing a trillion dollar bureaucracy.

We need an experienced businessman to come in and start cutting, and cutting FAST.

	▲	randerson 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Don't downplay it as just a few mistaken reports or one wrong line item. The majority of the dollar value they claimed to have saved was wrong. Now they _allege_ to have found 3 trillion in mystery payments, but we can't take them seriously because of their lack of proper audit techniques. They have no idea what they are doing. I believe the entire country is watching in real time as a teenager tries to navigate his first legacy system and he just hasn't found the rest of the business logic. Just like how they implied that millions of dead 150 year olds were still receiving social security payments. It was a known issue that dead people are still in the database, but they are not in fact receiving payments. A real auditor would have known what to ask and where to look.

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GoldenLox 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

its a fucking audit