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stuaxo 2 days ago

They will have had to impose this too.

The systems were built as separate systems to avoid (in a systems designers most fevered nightmares) a scenario like this.

flanked-evergl 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The executive branch was intended to be separate from the judicial and the legislative branch, not separate from itself.

_heimdall 2 days ago | parent [-]

And this is why the executive branch was never meant to have as much power as it has today.

We've spent the better part of 80 years moving power from legislative to execute and granting executive a whole host of new powers.

We made this bed, now it sure seems like Trump is making us sleep in it.

dmix 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I remember reading Glenn Greenwald in the 2000s when he was railing against the expansion of executive power under GWB.

> But the same individuals peddling this theory are simultaneously objecting quite vigorously to the notion that they are bestowing George Bush with the powers of a King. Bill Kristol and Gary Stevenson, for instance, called such claims "foolish and irresponsible" in the very same Washington Post Op-Ed where they argued that Bush need not "follow the strictures of" (i.e., obey) the law, and the President himself angrily denied that he is laying claim to a "dictatorial position" in the very same Press Conference where he proudly insisted on the right to eavesdrop on Americans without a warrant even though FISA makes it a crime to do so.

https://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/12/do-bush-defender...

And he was equally critical of Obama admin not only keeping those powers but further expanding them.

Americans stopped caring around the Patriot Act and executive power has only grown under every administration since

monetus 2 days ago | parent [-]

Glenn greenwald has been supportive of unitary executive theory the past few years, now. What a sad turn around.

dmix 2 days ago | parent [-]

Do you have a link where he talks about that?

Loughla 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Why do people seem drawn to having a king? What is it in human nature that makes us want a strong man in charge with absolute power?

doitLP 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It’s very easy to reason about when someone says “I alone can fix this.” You have a single person to look at and listen to. Not a faceless sprawling beauracracy and slow wheels of legislative progress.

It’s the same reason the antagonist in nearly every film is a single bad guy who is eventually karate-chopped down to size. It’s the same reason WW2 is a ‘simpler’ and more palatable narrative (a couple main bad guys) than WW1 (complex political and social movements across many countries led to war). Even though the same complexity of politics and social changes were also at play

In a big society where end effects are far away, we look to the strong men to handle the big problems

wan23 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It shouldn't be hard to understand why absolute power in the hands of yourself is the best political system. Since everyone can't be king, their next preference is going to be absolute power in the hands of someone who has their interests in mind. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people have varied interests and you can't really trust that anyone is fully aligned with you anyway.

alsoforgotmypwd 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Desperation, ignorance, and failure of the golden rule. They want their cult to win, and are fine with inconsistency and illegality when it benefits them. This is perhaps the ultimate vulnerability of representative government that cannot be remedied except through education and socially-enforced norms, or else democratic government must be abandoned but not for a malicious emperor.

_heimdall 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fear. In my opinion these decisions and problems always come back to fear.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
oblio 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Laziness. Convenience is the most powerful force in humanity and it's driving us to self destruction. Obesity, car oriented everything, etc.

krapp 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most people don't want a strong man in charge with absolute power. Dictators rule by fear and naked force, far more so than even the "monopoly on violence" claimed by modern states. A king is just another word for dictator, it's all the same. Although I would say Americans aren't really drawn to the model of a king so much as a "CEO in chief," but CEOs are essentially kings within their domain.

The people who do support it believe that they themselves will be granted noble status within the new regime, rather than being serfs.

52-6F-62 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Natural order. We structure all of nature into kingdoms. They flower out from a core archetype. And it also helps project an inheritable identity.

The problem above any American political and philosophical questions (moral questions notwithstanding), is mistaking Trump for anything resembling a worthy king. It will bring trouble.

In the ancient world the king was a symbol of the prosperity of the people and scapegoat for the sins and troubles of the people and was ritually killed and replaced when things weren’t working out. History whispers that one should be careful what one wishes for.

alsoforgotmypwd 2 days ago | parent [-]

Social Darwinistic systems are inherently unstable. People eventually get tired of corruption and being abused.

cindylmcindy 2 days ago | parent [-]

In my experience, your statement is opposite of true. Hence the term, 'die hard fan'. In fact, the more fans get abused, the deeper their love and loyalty grow.

alsoforgotmypwd 2 days ago | parent [-]

That's because many current regimes have exploited anocracy with the appearance of individual choice while manufacturing consent. Previously, it was done by force which is what doesn't scale.

cindylmcindy 2 days ago | parent [-]

Give the people what they want.

If they want to be abused, then lean all the way in.

scarab92 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

bootsmann 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

In clearance there is the concept of classification by compilation, which means that the clearance required for a piece of information can be higher than the one required by any single component that makes up that information. Being able to combine data across agencies makes it much more dangerous than keeping it separate and compartmentalized. Parallelism is a gigantic risk from a security perspective and ripe for abuse, especially given that DOGE itself has flaunted court orders trying to hold it accountable.

noja 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The organisations were designed to be separate, and the systems design follows that.

scarab92 2 days ago | parent [-]

Not really, agencies are merged and split and have their remit changed all the time.

If there were a way to efficiently manage 2.5 million staff in a single department, then we'd likely do that, but it's more efficient to specialise, so we do that instead.

Firewalling data between departments is rarely a design consideration, except in obvious cases (military), and it hardly matters in this scenario anyway, because it's not like Musk is walking into all 400 agencies with a laptop. DOGE is hiring an army of advisors and dividing them up between agencies.

l33tman 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know about the US but in other countries it is definitely by design that the departments and their data are separate. It is far too easy to abuse gathering and joining data on people otherwise. History did teach us these lessons, and it's continuously visible as well today, fortunately at small scales just because they are separate.

It would truly be a nightmare scenario to have all government databases under a single potentially corrupt roof or having someone with access to all of them cough.

intended 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe Americans would be terrified of the idea of government agencies linking all their information together. Letting them be siloed is quite likely intentional.

You seem to be making the analysis based on first principles, but it looks like it’s inspired by some facts or experience you have. could you share that source /info?

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
DonHopkins 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So cooking the books and defrauding the citizens of the United States by exaggerating your progress by x1000 is crucial, you mean.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/upshot/doge-contracts-mus...

DOGE Claimed It Saved $8 Billion in One Contract. It Was Actually $8 Million.

The biggest single line item on the website of Elon Musk’s cost-cutting team included a big error.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/musk-s-doge-accuse...

Musk's DOGE Accused of 'Cooking the Books' After $8 Billion Savings Is Immediately Debunked

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) falsely claimed an $8 billion cost savings from a canceled government contract, which was later revealed to be worth only $8 million.

https://x.com/electricfutures/status/1891898336208105676

Momentum Chaser @electricfutures

After several delays, @DOGE has finally posted its purported savings. Why did it take so long to create a simple webpage with a 1000-row table? Who knows! Let's dig in.

Headline number: $55B saved. They list the savings per nixed contract. This should be easy to verify then. [...]

guelo 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't believe people believe that it's actually an "audit". Both Trump. and Elon are famous liars. The reality is they think they found a loophole to destroy the government without having to pass any laws by fiting as many people as they can and stopping payments randomly. It's all illegal and evil.

briandear 2 days ago | parent [-]

Have you read Article II?

bonzini 2 days ago | parent [-]

Have you read Marbury v. Madison?

junon 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It's just the default nature of systems that were created by different agencies, under different projects with different teams.

... Yes, because those teams by default do not simply get to share access, because of various very well understood security and privacy issues by doing so.

> Trump only granted DOGE a 12 month window to eliminate waste, and there's 400 federal agencies, so parallelism is crucial.

That's what he says, at least. Also, if their current blatant lying[0] about the """waste""" continues then I don't really see a point. It seems clear Musk and the Breakfast Club boys who are unilaterally changing government finances have no idea how a government contract works (or it's willful ignorance).

[0] https://x.com/electricfutures/status/1891898336208105676

jonahbenton 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

None of what you are saying is true.