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mrandish 7 hours ago

> just buy the data from a broker

A surprising (and funny) example of this is how the open-source intelligence community and sites like Bellingcat used purchased or leaked data from private Russian commercial data brokers to identify and track the detailed movements of elite Russian assassination squads inside Russia as well as in various other countries. They learned the exact buildings where they go to work every day as well as who they met with and their home addresses. https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/how-bellingcat-unmas...

Volunteer open-source researchers also used these readily available data sources to identify and publicly out several previously unknown Russian sleeper agents who'd spent years hiding in Western countries while building cover identities and making contacts. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/08/25/socialite-widow-j...

To your point, if volunteer internet hobbyists can use commercial broker data to identify and track elite Russian assassins and undercover sleeper agents, in Russia and around the world, China having direct access to US Tiktok data, which Tiktok sells to anyone through brokers anyway, doesn't seem like an existential intelligence threat to our national security. Forcing TikTok to divest Chinese ownership would, at most, make Chinese intelligence go through an extra step and pay a little for the data.

If politicians were really worried about foreign adversaries aggregating comprehensive data profiles on everyone, just addressing China's access to TikTok is a side show distraction. Why didn't they pass legislation banning all major social media services from selling or sharing certain kinds of data and requiring the anonymization of other kinds of data to prevent anyone aggregating composite profiles across multiple social platforms or data brokers? That would actually reduce the threat profile somewhat.

Obviously, they aren't doing that because the FBI, CIA, NSA, TSA, INS, IRS, Homeland Security and their Five Eyes international partners are aggressively buying data broker info on all US residents at massive scale every day and aggregating it into comprehensive profiles - all with no warrants, probable cause or oversight. The US Constitution doesn't apply because it's just private commercial data, not government data. Any such law would have to explicitly carve out exceptions allowing US and allied intelligence agencies to continue doing this. Alternatively, they could put such use under the secret FISA intelligence court. US intelligence has thoroughly co-opted FISA oversight but jumping through the FISA hoop is extra work and filling out the paperwork to be rubber-stamped is annoying. They much prefer remaining completely unregulated and unsupervised like they are now, collecting everything on everyone all the time without limit. They've certainly already automated collecting all the data they want from every broker.

So yeah... let's very publicly make a big show of slapping just China and only about TikTok - and loudly proclaim we really did something to protect citizen privacy and reduce our national data aggregation attack surface. This is the intelligence community cleverly offering a fig leaf of plausible deniability to politicians who can now claim they "did something", while leaving the US intelligence community free to pillage every last shred of citizen privacy in secret.

gunian 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This sounds super cool where can I get/buy this data? Would be a fun dataset to mess around with

Any idea why it is unidirectional? If the data is openly available why can't the Russians track US/Ukrainian agents the same way?

miki123211 6 hours ago | parent [-]

As far as I understand, many of those brokers are specific to Russia, and get their data specifically from Russian sources which Ukrainians are unlikely to be involved with.

Russian officials / employees are easier to bribe, so there are brokers selling access to car ownership / license plate records, cell phone location records and call logs, passport records etc.

There's a good Bellingcat article on this at https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/14/navalny-fsb-...

gunian 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Interesting any idea why the FSB/GRU make their agents operate using their real identities as opposed to using a cover?

Or did Tom Clancy lie and they are so incompetent they can't even use OSINT tools lol

mrandish 5 hours ago | parent [-]

It's not like the spies were routinely careless or didn't do the obvious things a spy should do. They did travel under cover identities but those covers were linked to mobile phone and other data in foreign countries. That left a trail that could be followed to identify real personal data when they intersected back in Russia. They also used public posts on Russian social media. I guess OO7 didn't know a single group photo from some department secretary's retirement party can undo years of spy craft. And just swapping out a SIM when you get back home in Russia doesn't change the phone's ESN.

I'm not an expert though. There's a lot of detailed info on OSINT sources and methods online. The bottom line is it's extremely difficult to put the data genie back in the bottle. The stuff seeps out everywhere and searching aggregated databases from multiple sources and time periods uncovers any connection. It only requires a single slip-up happening one time. This just reinforces that a regular citizen in a Western democracy who's not a spy trained to operate under cover with a nation-state providing authentic false identities, is screwed in terms of maintaining their own privacy.

gunian 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Idk the math isn't mathing. In the US drugs are moved using graffiti or word of mouth or dead drops because dealers are operating under the assumption all digital devices are monitored. If they use phones at all burners are discarded not sim swapped

Is the FSB/GRU more incompetent than my local fentanyl dealer? new identity, plastic surgery, contacts to protect iris scanning, no digital comms except in house tech, avoiding legal entrypoints seem to be the very basic in today's age especially for a hit

Tom Clancy lied that's a few hours of my life I'll never get back lol

throwawayq3423 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Again, how does this change any of the realities of TikTok? "Leave them alone because other abuses exist" is not an argument.

getpokedagain 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

this is a rabbit hole I can jump down with a good cup of tea tonight thanks bud