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| ▲ | ethbr1 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Forcing TikTok to divest from mainland Chinese control absolutely solves the second, in TikTok's case. That there exist other problems is not a justification for inaction on this particular problem. | | |
| ▲ | trescenzi 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you consider TikTok a “Security-sensitive system” that seems to be such a broad category as to be useless. I guess we should stop using any and all Chinese produced software systems then? Which isn’t an unreasonable opinion but again it feels like a different conversation than “ban TikTok”. | | |
| ▲ | ethbr1 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | You don't consider a massively deployed app, on a majority of mobile devices, via which blackmailable individual profiles can be assembled "security-sensitive"? I'd absolutely consider Meta to be security sensitive. And Microsoft. And Google. And Netflix. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm curious what netflix behavior you imagine would ever be blackmailable? "You watched Red One, and we'll tell you employer and wife about it unless you ..." How does this work? | |
| ▲ | lossolo 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > blackmailable individual profiles can be assembled What does that even mean in this context? Have you used TikTok before? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > What does that even mean in this context? TikTok's CSAM problem is well documented [1]. Disposable idiots are a necessary asset for any intelligence operation. Kim Jong-nam's assasins, for example, "were told to play harmless tricks on people in the vicinity for a prank TV show" [2]. [1] https://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/tiktok-under-fede... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-nam | | |
| ▲ | roenxi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Doesn't that imply that TikTok would be deliberately protecting high-profile individuals from CSAM prosecution? That seems like the sort of thing that should have triggered some warm-up scandals before requiring Chinese disinvestment. It isn't like TikTok are the only part of the internet with a CSAM problem. By default anything that offers file hosting has a CSAM problem. To keep the Chinese away from blackmail material the US would have to ban any form of image hosting served from the Chinese mainland - the CSAM people go to the CSAM, it doesn't proactively seek people out. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It isn't like TikTok are the only part of the internet with a CSAM problem Of course not. I was just providing an easy example of what TikTok may have that we don’t want the CCP to. |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > TikTok's CSAM problem is well documented [1]. Did you mean for that link to go somewhere different? | | | |
| ▲ | lossolo 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > TikTok's CSAM problem is well documented [1]. Your link doesn't say anything about TikTok? > Kim Jong-nam's assasins, for example, "were told to play harmless tricks on people in the vicinity for a prank TV show" What? How is that connected to "blackmailable individual profiles"? How can they blackmail me? Please explain. You mean like "I see you watch cat videos so now go revolt against your government or I will tell everyone you watch cat videos?", this is the blackmail part? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > How can they blackmail me? Please explain They may not be able to. But it sure would be helpful to have a list of people in likely financial distress with addresses close to military installations. Such a person may not ask questions if given a job offer from an influencer or whatever to take selfies around town. | | |
| ▲ | lossolo 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > people in likely financial distress with addresses close to military installations Sure, that's possible, but I think it's a bit of a stretched argument. Can't you target people like that on Facebook with ads? Can't you buy data about these people from U.S. data brokers? Can't you already access this data publicly because people share it openly on social media? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Can't you target people like that on Facebook with ads? Can't you buy data about these people from U.S. data brokers? Ads have too low of an SNR--you'll blow your cover before getting anything useful. Buying works, but (a) you'd need to be careful about hiding your intentions and (b) it's never going to be as high fidelity as the direct data stream. (Think of the amount of unique data they got from their copy-paste hijacking alone [1].) Having the data yourself means you can silently query high-fidelity real-time data on a third of the American population. That's difficult to replicate. Again, if you need a familiar bogeyman, consider what the NSA would ask Meta to do if Instagram weren't banned in China. [1] https://lifehacker.com/is-tiktok-really-recording-everything... |
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| ▲ | ToucanLoucan 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except they've just spun up different apps accessing the same data, and also people are flocking to alternatives even more connected to China's Intel apparatus than TikTok allegedly was, because fundamentally a shit ton of Americans don't trust their government. And IMO, they're right not to. We could shut all of this shit down if we actually wanted to, but that means going after American companies too, which they won't. They want to have the cake and eat it too: outlaw foreign spying on American users without outlawing domestic spying on American users. They want to make it so China can't do exactly what social media et al does in America, to Americans. Americans are not stupid: they are perceiving this. They know they are being manipulated, perhaps by China, perhaps by the U.S., definitely by dozens if not hundreds of private enterprises, likely all fucking three. On one hand, the American government's priority is the security of America and her citizens, but on the other, we have an entire segment of the economy now utterly dependent on being able to violate citizen's privacy at will and at scale. Surveillance capitalism and foreign surveillance are effectively interoperable. You can't kill one without killing the other. Edit: And even more on the personal front, for your every day Joe: this is completely stake-less. "Oh China is spying on me!" big fucking deal. The NSA was caught spying on us decades ago, and by all accounts, they still are. Google AdSense probably knows my resting heart rate and rectal measurements that it will use to try and sell me the new flavor of Oreo. We accept as a given that our privacy is basically long gone, not only did that boat leave the pier, it sailed to the mid-Atlantic, sunk, and a bunch of billionaires imploded trying to check out the wreckage in a poorly made submarine. I don't fucking care if China is spying on me too, that's just a fact of my online existence. | | |
| ▲ | airstrike 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | People are not flocking to other more Chinese apps. A handful of people are. You're not seeing new signups to Instagram or YouTube because a lot of people who are on TikTok already had accounts on those platforms. | | |
| ▲ | VectorMath 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Little Red Book/RedNote is the #1 app on the App Store, followed by Lemon8 at #2. Duolingo reported a 216% increase in parties interested in learning Mandarin[0], people are actively boycotting the likes of Meta/Google[1], and many content creators have set up shop there (albeit with a much smaller following)[2]. It’d be disingenuous to write off these effects. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/15/duolingo-sees-216-spike-in... [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/meta-boycott-faceb... [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/over-half-million-tiktok-... | | |
| ▲ | airstrike 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, because it went from like the worst app in the US to a pretty popular one in a short period of time. YouTube has 240 million accounts in the US. Instagram has 170 million. 500k accounts in RedNote is nothing in comparison. People are protesting because it's cool to do especially when you're a rebellious youngster but I'm pretty convinced it's going to fizzle out. I don't think it's fair to say it's disingenuous to believe as much. Maybe you could say it's "too early" to write it off, to which I'd respond saying it's too early to buy into the belief that it will take over American culture in any way that resembles TikTok.... and, even if it did, that it would not be banned from the US again. | |
| ▲ | kube-system 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, and BeReal beat out TikTok for a couple of months too. Being topical for a moment doesn't mean something has staying power. Learning Mandarin is a pretty big barrier to entry lol. 2x on Duolingo doesn't mean that much, how many were learning it last year? | | |
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| ▲ | Aunche 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Privacy legislation only works because companies have to worry about whistleblowers leaking violations to the media, which would cause them to be fined. China can disappear any whistleblowers and has full control over their media. If CCP compromising TikTok is proven despite this, then it's over for TikTok anyways and fines are irrelevant. |
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