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Very fun. Is this primarily a passion project or are you hoping to get corporate sponsorship & adoption?

Can you provide some insight as to why this would be preferred over an orchestration server? In this context - Would a 'mothership'/Wheel-and-spoke drone responsible for controlling the rest of the hive be considered an orchestration server?

This isn't my area of expertise but I think "Hive mind drones" tickles every engineer.

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lmeierhoefer 10 hours ago | parent [-]

> Is this primarily a passion project or are you hoping to get corporate sponsorship & adoption?

We are in the current YC W25 batch and our vision is to build a developer framework for autonomous robotics systems from the system we already have.

> Can you provide some insight as to why this would be preferred over an orchestration server?

It heavily depends on your application, there are applications where it makes sense and others where it doesn’t. The main advantages are that you don’t need an internet connection, the system is more resilient against network outages, and most importantly, the resources on the robots, which are idle otherwise, are used. I think for hobbyists, the main upsides is that it’s quick to set up, you only have to turn on the machines and it should work without having to care about networking or setting up a cloud connection.

> Would a 'mothership'/Wheel-and-spoke drone responsible for controlling the rest of the hive be considered an orchestration server?

If the mothership is static, in the sense that it doesn’t change over time, we would consider it an orchestration server. Our core services don’t need that and we envision that most of the decentralized algorithms running on our system also don’t rely on such central point of failure. However, there are some applications where it makes sense to have a “temporary mothership”. We are just currently working on a “group” abstraction, which continuously runs a leader election to determine a “mothership” among the group (which is fault-tolerant however, as the leader can fail anytime and the system will instantly determine another one).

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NotAnOtter 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> The main advantages are that you don’t need an internet connection

To that end, I'm not clear on benefit in this model. To solve that problem I would just take a centralized framework and stick it inside an oversized drone/vehicle capable of carrying the added weight (in CPU, battery, etc.). There are several centralized models that don't require an external data connection

> the resources on the robots, which are idle otherwise, are used

But what's the benefit of this? I don't see the use case of needing the swarm to perform lots of calculations beyond the ones required for it's own navigation & communication with others. I suppose I could imagine a chain of these 'idle' drones acting as a communication relay between two separate, active hives. But the benefit there seems marginal.

> our system also don’t rely on such central point of failure

This seems like the primary upside, and it's a big one. I'm imagining a disaster or military situation where natural or human forces could be trying to disable the hive. Now instead of knocking out a single mothership ATV - each and every drone need to be removed to full disable it. Big advantage.

> We are just currently working on a “group” abstraction

Makes sense to me. That's the 'value add', might as well really spec that out

> leader election to determine a “mothership” among the group

This seems perfectly reasonable to me and doesn't remove the advantages of the disconnected "hive". But I do find it funny that the solution to decentralization seems to be simply having the centralization move around easily / flexibly. It's not a hive of peers, it's a hive of temporary kings.

	▲	lmeierhoefer 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Thanks for the feedback! > I would just take a centralized framework and stick it inside an oversized drone/vehicle capable of carrying the added weight Makes sense. I think there are scenarios where such “base stations” are a priori available and “shielded,” so in this case, it might make more sense to just go with a centralized system. This could also be built on top of our system, though. > But what’s the benefit of this? I agree that, in many cases, the return on saving costs might be marginal. However, say you have a cluster of drones equipped with computing hardware capable enough to run all algorithms themselves—why spin up a cloud instance for running a centralized version of that algorithm? It is more of an engineering-ideological point, though ;) > But I do find it funny that the solution to decentralization seems to be simply having the centralization move around easily / flexibly. It’s not a hive of peers, it’s a hive of temporary kings. Most of our applications will not need this group leader. For example, the pubsub system does not work by aggregating and dispatching the messages at a central point (like MQTT) but employs a gossip mechanism (https://docs.libp2p.io/concepts/pubsub/overview/). What I meant is that, in some situations, it might be more efficient (and it’s easier to reason about) to elect a leader. For example, say you have an algorithm that needs to do a matching between neighboring nodes —i.e., each node has some data point, and the algorithm wants to compute a pairwise similarity metric and share all computed metrics back to all nodes. You could do some kind of “ring-structure” algorithm, where you have an ordering among the nodes, and each node receives data points from the predecessor, computes its own similarity against the incoming data point, and forwards the received data point to its successor. If one node fails, the neighboring nodes in the ring will switch to the successor. This would be truly decentralized, and there is no single point of failure. However, in most cases, this approach will have a higher computation latency than just electing a temporary leader (by letting the leader compute the matchings and send them back to everyone). So someone caring about efficiency (and not resiliency) will probably want such a leader mechanism.