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zeroonetwothree 14 hours ago

Link to opinion: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf

raverbashing 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And it was an unanimous decision. When was the last time we had those for such an impactful decision I wonder?

dataflow 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"Impactful" might be counting your chickens a little too early. Let's see if it has any impact. The next POTUS might just ignore it, or some other shenanigans might be used to work around whatever the imagined impact was.

ivraatiems 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The majority of Supreme Court decisions are unanimous, including on major issues. The recent trend of divided opinions is relatively new.

kyrra 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Regularly, you just don't read about them as they don't make news headlines.

johnnyanmac 13 hours ago | parent [-]

"impactful decision" is key here.

kyrra 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Many/most scotus rulings are impactful. They are just not all controversial.

mynameishere 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

numbsafari 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The interesting bits from the text[1], relative to the now flagged sibling

-----

(3) FOREIGN ADVERSARY CONTROLLED APPLICATION.—The term “foreign adversary controlled application” means a website, desktop application, mobile application, or augmented or immersive technology application that is operated, directly or indirectly (including through a parent company, subsidiary, or affiliate), by—

(A) any of—

(i) ByteDance, Ltd.;

(ii) TikTok;

(iii) a subsidiary of or a successor to an entity identified in clause (i) or (ii) that is controlled by a foreign adversary; or

(iv) an entity owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by an entity identified in clause (i), (ii), or (iii); or

(B) a covered company that—

(i) is controlled by a foreign adversary; and

(ii) that is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of—

(I) a public notice proposing such determination; and

(II) a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such determination, describing the specific national security concern involved and containing a classified annex and a description of what assets would need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture.

-----

The way I read this is that Congress is bootstrapping the law with its own finding that ByteDance, Ltd/TikTok are Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications, but then, in (3)(B), the President is responsible for determining any other entities this law should cover given previously stated parameters (what they mean by "covered entity" here), using the procedure it then provides.

I believe that addresses the concern about this being a "Bill of Attainder".

Edit: Obviously IANAL, but it also doesn't appear that this issue of this being a Bill of Attainder was raised by TikTok, nor was it considered in this opinion. Perhaps they will do so in a separate action, or already have and it just hasn't made its way to the court(?), but if it were such a slam dunk defense, you think their expensive lawyers would have raised it.

[1]: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521...

andrewla 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The Supreme Court has made only very narrow rulings around Bills of Attainder.

To me this bill seems problematic on that front in two directions. One is that it explicitly names a target of the ban. Secondly, it grants the president power to arbitrarily name more. Similar to how a King can declare certain Subjects be Attainded on His Whim.

But the petitioners (TikTok) did not raise this issue so the court did not have to decide on it. Instead they focused on the first amendment issue, which seems like a loser -- there is no speech present on TikTok that the law bans; any content on TikTok can be posted to red-blooded American apps like shorts or reels so the speech itself is not affected.

Gormo 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I believe that addresses the concern about this being a "Bill of Attainder".

The definition of "foreign adversary controlled application" in the bill is explicit in including either (a) this specific list of organizations, OR (b) other organization that might meet certain criteria later. I'm not sure how the existence of (b) addresses the concern that (a) amounts to a bill of attainder.

hedora 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This analysis seems reasonable, but I think the simpler explanation blatant corruption, since the legislation is moving judicial responsibility from from the judicial branch to the legislature and president, and a great deal of money is involved.

nordsieck 13 hours ago | parent [-]

> I think the simpler explanation blatant corruption, since the legislation is moving judicial responsibility from from the judicial branch to the legislature and president

I mean, that's true of basically all administrative agencies.

Gormo 13 hours ago | parent [-]

But with the reversal of Chevron, this will hopefully be somewhat corrected.

lizhang 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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dentemple 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

vishnugupta 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotebookLM

13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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hedora 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

vessenes 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree we have an activist court in the Roberts court. How is this making an ex-post facto law, though? The suit is over a bill passed with broad bipartisan support by Congress.

hedora 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s a bill of Attainder, i.e., a legislative act that declares a specific individual or group guilty of a crime and imposes punishment without the benefit of a judicial trial.

rayiner 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

From your own link:

> However, the Court has emphasized that legislation does not violate the Bill of Attainder Clause simply because it places legal burdens on a specific individual or group.2 Rather, as discussed in more detail below, a bill of attainder must also inflict punishment.

Divestment isn't a punishment for a crime. Nobody is accusing Tik Tok of having committed a crime. Congress simply doesn't want a foreign power hostile to the U.S. to control a business that's popular in the U.S.

vessenes 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is it, though? Not a lawyer, obviously. But here I seem to agree with both Bytedance’s lawyers, and the full SCOTUS. Bytedance challenged on free speech terms. There are no dissents as to the Consitutionality of the law.

Prosaically, what individual or group is being declared guilty here? The law requires TikTok to have new ownership; it doesn’t seize it, or set a price for it, which might therefore harm shareholders. Calling this attainder seems like a pretty big stretch to me. And, it seems Bytedance legal counsel didn’t think this would fly as well.

rayiner 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Divestment could be a punishment in some circumstances. E.g. if Congress passed a law requiring Elon Musk to divest himself of X as punishment for purportedly violating the Securities Act.

The difference here is that Tik Tok is not being accused of a crime and is not being punished for some crime. It's applying a restriction on foreign ownership not to punish Tik Tok for some past act, but because Congress is worried about the risks arising from that ownership in the future.

otterley 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No it isn't.

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rayiner 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I agree we have an activist court in the Roberts court.

People who for decades subscribed to the notion that "emanations from penumbras" are a source of constitutional law don't have any room to talk about judicial activism.

Hasu 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Anyone who thinks judicial review is Constitutional has no room to talk about judicial activism.

It started with the Marshall Court and never stopped.

rayiner 13 hours ago | parent [-]

https://imgflip.com/i/9h0xgl

ellisv 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Doesn't really seem relevant in this case.

14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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