Remix clone Hacker News

I went to 10 of them this year, as I was travelling from Hokkaido to Kyushu throughout a couple of months. Found one accidentally in Sapporo, then actively looked for others in every city. It’s weird how I can recall every single one of them from memory too, as they were all simple, but genuinely a good time (and slightly different in terms of vibes and clientele it would attract).

But it’s also sad how this would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices. Most of them seemed to be ran by an older man (70+, I’d guess). And from my chats with some of them, they owned the property as well. It was just a blissful experience to have a drink, listen to music that the owner deemed to find great, and just let your mind wander around.

One of them introduced me to some amazing jazz bands that I’ve never heard of, and talked a lot about the history of such places. Shout out to Hideki-san!

▲

Tiktaalik 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> But it’s also sad how this would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices

This and so many other things. Low rents in Japan enable small time entrepeneurship in so many ways that is impossible in NA. Derek Guy discusses this often in the context of menswear. https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1861583359518089544

It's another example of the Housing Theory of Everything, that we're suffering in all sorts of other ways by making real estate scarce.

▲

tokioyoyo 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The only silver lining of massive population decline might as well be a crash in real estate prices. But that would be extremely painful if we went through, from an economical standpoint.

	▲	Tiktaalik 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah there's no real upside to that demographic decline. Travelling in some more remote places outside the major cities this most recent trip and I did see examples of abandoned and derelict homes. It is very bad and worse for society than high home prices. The Canadian government has recently been savaged by the media and opposition for their immigration policy, being blamed for high home prices, but I suspect the policy people in the government are looking at Japan and Italy small towns emptying out and are terrified and hoping to avoid that. It should be noted that while the population of some rural and remote towns in Japan may be declining severely, the population of Tokyo is increasing. That Tokyo is still so much remarkably more affordable than the other great major cities around the world amidst this shows that they are doing something right policy wise beside the demographic issues.

▲

pavlov 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, I don’t suppose there are cities in America that are both walkable and cheap enough that a jazz fan could own a small commercial property for this purpose (if they didn’t get rich from something else before).

Seems like a possibility in smaller European cities though.

	▲	tokioyoyo 10 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Hm, maybe! I guess depends on the European city as well? It's like a perfect balance for Japan where the average age is very old, so a lot of retirees who just sip a cup of coffee for a couple of hours. But also, a cultural acceptance of flying solo, sitting by yourself at a table, basically doing nothing and listening until it's your time to go home. To be fair though, all the places I went to were much less busier than actual local bars or designated cafes. A couple of places were just full of regulars (I went to a couple of them multiple times, and it was exactly the same people) with clienteles with average age of 60+. Obviously I have extremely limited amount of data points, so might be very wrong.

▲

ragazzina 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices

Iw was my understanding that NA rent prices are much lower than in places with high population density such as Europe or Japan? Every time I am in the USA I am shocked by the amount of commercial activities that would never work in Europe because of the sheer amount of space required to host them.

	▲	tokioyoyo 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Technically you're right. But, you would need to create a space that becomes a magnet so people would drive/Uber there. Personally, these places charmed me from being "small, quaint, and relaxed spot in the middle of a city" (with a couple of exceptions). And then, you only have a very small subset of people who might actually enjoy it, so an average potential client would have to drive/Uber significant amount to get there. Another thing is, in most of the Canada (i'm more familiar with laws here, but assuming it's similar in the states), zoning laws actually would prevent such place to exist in the middle of housing compounds. I live in a city right now, but if there was such place, and it would take me about 15 minutes to drive there, I would absolutely never go other than for novelty factor. It's great, but it's not "i'll drive there by myself after work, have a drink and drive back" kinda great. If I could subway there for 20 minutes, I would probably do it once every other month. If it's 20 minute walking distance, then probably once a month. So yeah, distance from your local neighbourhood would matter when it comes to niche businesses. But again, I might be extremely off my base, since I've never owned a cafe/bar.

▲

Tiktaalik 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Most of them seemed to be ran by an older man (70+, I’d guess)

Yep. Stopped by two on a trip to Japan earlier this year and one run by an old man and one by a woman apparently 80+ years old (!).

I had a great time but yeah feeling anxious in that for natural causes, many of these places will be closing very soon as their owners surely retire at some point. I do not think many have succession plans in place. Neither place I visited had any staff. The gentleman said he'd run the place by himself for decades.

It makes one want to immediately make more travel plans to Japan as a sort of depressing "last chance to see"[1] type trip to go visit more of them. I'm upset I was only able to visit two.

Much like how the amazing game centre culture of Japan has pretty much completely vanished from its 1990s era peak, I expect soon Jazz Kissas will be almost entirely impossible to find.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Chance_to_See

	▲	tokioyoyo 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Definitely agreed! If it makes you feel better, in one of them (I think it was in Okayama), there were three people at the venue - owner (70s), and two girls who lived in a different city but were younger than me (mid-20s). We chatted for a while, and apparently all three in a trio, where the owner plays ob piano and the girls do tap dancing. It was the coolest thing ever for me! He even played some on piano for us. But, if I recall my conversations correctly, there was some interest from younger Japanese population to open up a similar place after they retire. Maybe there is some hope!