| ▲ | namaria 3 months ago |
| The low code space has been well explored. Excel is the flagship product in that space. You tell me if you want to be involved with a long lived and non trivial collection of spreadsheets. |
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| ▲ | IshKebab 3 months ago | parent | next [-] |
| I don't particularly want to be involved with a long lived and non trivial collection of Ruby code either, if my experience of the Gitlab codebase is anything to go by. I agree with the author's point, if you replace Ruby with something less awful (Deno, Go, etc.) |
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| ▲ | meesles 3 months ago | parent [-] | | This feels like the exception that proves the rule. Gitlab has one of the largest Rails codebases on earth. It's also been built by a decentralized remote engineering org from the start. I think that explains a lot. Compare that to my personal experiences and that of my colleagues who work heavily with Rails: We show up to a new job at any level of seniority, spend a week or two learning the codebase, and immediately have a firm grasp of all the major components of the application. And I want to stress _firm_ grasp, since everything from the model structure to the ORM to where you can expect to find tests is standard. Obviously no framework or convention will hold perfectly in the extremes | | |
| ▲ | kayodelycaon 3 months ago | parent [-] | | Same here. I’ve basically made my career as a rails developer and it’s never taken me very long to figure out the many applications I’ve worked with. Some of them are quite complicated. Some of the older stuff built around rails overdid the meta-programming. Makes unraveling things a little more difficult, but you generally know where to look. And every time I see a nontrivial state machine using a state machine gem, I know I’m in for a world of hurt. But I know exactly what mistakes I will be fixing. :) |
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| ▲ | ryukoposting 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'll never understand why more devs don't learn Excel. Yeah, it's ugly. It's also the only thing you know you can use to develop a tool, slap one file into an email, send it to whoever needs the tool, and they'll immediately know exactly how to open it and use it. No 5-step lists of instructions, no dependency hell, no need to subvert the IT department. Excel is the lowest-friction platform for developing internal tools, period. |
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| ▲ | grogenaut 3 months ago | parent | next [-] | | We use sheets all the time at work for all sorts of processes, essentially an internal tool. But it doesn't really even need code, the human is the code. I had to strongly suggest to some of our TPMs and actually a principal in the last year that no they didn't need a tool, they just needed a spreadsheet. But this is so low code that people likely don't even think of it as a low code solution, it's just a spreadsheet. That said other than managing and sorting lists of work to do, I break the limits on sheets and excel all the time so for anything with customer scale data I can't use it. | |
| ▲ | nickjj 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yep, even the most basic knowledge such as knowing how to do math on a few cells can be useful to build things. It's really good for one off internal tools to do comparisons. For the first 5 years of selling courses I handled affiliate payouts by sorting and summing rows in a spreadsheet. It only took 5 minutes once a month. I eventually automated what I used to do manually with a script that reads the CSV file because I like coding and it was fun to me, plus I wanted to remove one point of human error. | |
| ▲ | analog31 3 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | At my workplace, they do, for all of those reasons. |
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| ▲ | zamalek 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Somewhat of a tangent: As much as us engineers hate it, I consider the fact that Excel monstrosities are commonplace high praise for the product. Being hated by engineers because your product is so common is exactly where you want to be (double points if you stir up some consulting/certification for migrating to actual solutions). |
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| ▲ | lordofgibbons 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's AN example, idk if I'd call it the flagship product. Another example is: https://www.sidefx.com/products/houdini/ which uses node based programming with small amounts of code for edge cases. It's used in a lot of movies very successfully. |
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| ▲ | stefan_ 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know if that is the case. Here is a low code flagship product few people have heard of: https://mathworks.com/products/simulink.html It runs your car engine. |
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| ▲ | cpgxiii 3 months ago | parent [-] | | More exactly, C code (hopefully MISRA C) generated from Simulink models runs much of the embedded systems in many cars. Although sometimes (cough, Toyota/Denso, cough) that generated C is then bodily assaulted by questionably competent embedded developers until it combines the worst qualities of MISRA C and low-quality embedded development, because, like many low-code solutions, getting (and keeping) everything in the low-code model is hard and the built-in escape hatch to a real programming language is not always a good fit to the problem at hand. (As a nit, I suspect that Simulink is known and deservedly disliked by the vast majority of people with non-software Engineering degrees, given the omnipresence of Matlab in academic contexts.) | | |
| ▲ | analog31 3 months ago | parent [-] | | Matlab / Simulink will doubtlessly have a very long tail, but is being overtaken by Python. For one thing, programming is gaining ground in areas that have no established loyalty to Matlab, and those are growing areas. Such as the life sciences. For another, a certain fraction of students want to test the waters and see if they can explore software development as a career option. Python is more relevant to that option than Matlab. But Simulink does continue to rule its own roost. I think the users see themselves more as engineers than as software developers. And engineers are more inured to using awkward tools. | | |
| ▲ | miohtama 3 months ago | parent [-] | | Python is also open source. | | |
| ▲ | analog31 3 months ago | parent [-] | | Indeed, and that's an attraction even despite Matlab being effectively "free" due to generous academic site licenses. But people are catching on that open source means more than "free" as in beer. I think it has also encouraged what we've seen, the flourishing ecosystem of libraries, tools, tutorials, etc., that really make Python what is. People don't want to pour their heart and soul into something that somebody else owns. | | |
| ▲ | robocat 3 months ago | parent [-] | | > People don't want to pour their heart and soul into something that somebody else owns. Plus the soul of academia is openess and sharing (perhaps trending towards closed IP and privatisation). |
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| ▲ | rqtwteye 3 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not sure if Excel is low code. It has a pretty full featured language behind it: VBA. |
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| ▲ | ebiester 3 months ago | parent [-] | | Retool has JavaScript. This is common for low code to have full languages attached. The point is that you can do 80% of the presentation by wiring things together and only rely on coding for the most complex tasks. |
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| ▲ | 3 months ago | parent | prev [-] |
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