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Sorry to have to tell you this, but you’re old. Your neural plasticity has gone down and you feel like you have seen it al before. As a result you cling to the old and never feel like you grasp the new. The only reasonable thing to is to acknowledge and accept this and try not let it get in your way.

Our generation has seen many things before, but at the same time the world has completely changed and it’s led to the people growing up in it to be different.

You and me didn’t fully grasp CPUs anymore. Some people today don’t grasp all the details of the abstractions below K8s anymore and use it when perhaps something simpler (in architecture , not necessarily in use!) could do it better. And yet, they build wonderous things. Without editing php.ini and messing up 2 services to get one working.

Do I think K8s is the end all? Certainly not, I agree it’s sometimes overkill. But I bet you’ll like it’s follow-up tech even less. It is the way of things.

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tombert 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm 33 dude, not exactly "old".

I never really liked the devops stuff even when I was 20. I have no doubt that I could get better with k8s, but it's decidedly not fun.

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creesch 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While this is a nice essay, it also is purely an emotional argument hanging together from assumptions and fallacies.

Even if you are right in this instance, just brushing things off with the "you are old" argument will ensure that you end up in some horrible tech debt spaghetti mess in the future.

Being critical of the infrastructure you deploy to is a good thing. Because for all the new things that do stick around, there are dozens of other shiny new hyped up things that end up in digital purgatory quite soon after the hype phase is over.

That's not to say there isn't some truth to your statement. The older you get, the more critical you do need to be to yourself as well. Because it is indeed possible to just be against something because it is new and unfamiliar. At the same time, does experience provide insights allowing senior people to be more critical to things.

*tl;dr:* The world is complicated, not binary.

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teekert 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, I fully agree with you. Perhaps the -hate “cloud shit"- remark triggered me a bit. It's just such a 'drown the baby with the bathwater', curmudgeon thing to say. And, imho, it betrays age. It's like my grandfather saying, I hate all this digital stuff, "I will never put email on my phone because with emails come viruses." (Literal thing my father-in-law always claims, and perhaps he's not even wrong, he just stopped using new things, hating and resisting change. He has that right of course. And to be fair with his knowledge level it's perhaps even good to not have email on his Phone. But it's getting more difficult, i.e. he refuses our national Digital ID, making his life a lot harder in the process, especially because he also resists help, too proud). It's good to recognize this in oneself though, imho.

	▲	tombert 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I don't think it betrays age really, I just think that a lot of this stuff with AWS and Azure and GCP is overly complicated. I am not convinced anyone actually enjoys working on it. I'm pretty sure that 21 year old me would have roughly the same opinion. As I said in a sibling comment, you can genuinely get a bachelors degree in AWS or Azure [1], meaning that it's complicated enough to where someone thought it necessitated an entire college degree. By "cloud shit", I don't mean "someone else hosting stuff" (which I tried to clarify by saying "give me a VM" at the end). I mostly think that having four hundred YAML files to do anything just sucks the life out of engineering. It wouldn't bother me too much if these tasks were just handled by the people who run devops, but I hate that since I am a "distributed systems engineer" that I have to LARP as an accountant and try and remember all this annoying arbitrary bureaucratic crap. [1] https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/cloud-computing-bachel...

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tedk-42 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Is K8s the end all? Certainly not, I agree it’s sometimes overkill. But I bet you’ll like it’s follow-up tech even less. It is the way of things.

I agree with your analysis.

People wanna talk up about how good the old days were plugging cables into racks but it's really laborious and can take days to debug that a faulty network switch is the cause of these weird packet drop issues seen sporadically on hot days.

Same as people saying 'oh yeah calculators are too complicated, pen and paper is what kids should be learning'.

It's the tide of change

	▲	tombert 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I reject that comparison, I'm not really resistant to change, I'm resistant the awful bureaucratic crap that k8s and its ilk force you to use. It's not fun, as far as I can tell no one actually understands any of it (young or old), they just copy and past large blocks of YAML from blogs and documentation and then cross their fingers. I'm not saying that plugging in cables and hoping power supplies don't die is "better" in any kind of objective sense, or even subjective sense really, I'm just saying that I hate this cloud cult that has decided that the only way to do anything is to add layers of annoying bureaucratic shit.