| ▲ | jerf 3 days ago |
| "Your essay must be at least X words" has always been an impediment to truly good writing skills, but now it's just worthless. |
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| ▲ | eszed 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| The way I explained it when I taught English 101 to first-year university students: any substantive question can generate an answer of a paragraph or a life's work; in this assignment I expect you to go into this much depth. Of course, good expository writing is as to-the-point as possible, so the first hurdle for most students was eliminating the juvenile trick of padding out their prose with waffle to meet an arbitrary word-count. Giving a word-count to an AI seems (currently) to activate the same behavior. I've not yet seen an AI text that's better writing than a college freshman could be expected to produce. |
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| ▲ | iambateman 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Of course, good expository writing is as to-the-point as possible, so the first hurdle for most students was eliminating the juvenile trick of padding out their prose with waffle to meet an arbitrary word-count. This is the most beautiful sentence I’ve read today. | | |
| ▲ | TeMPOraL 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Problem is, I doubt many people overcome this hurdle - that "juvenile trick" is pretty much the defining quality of articles and books we consume. | | |
| ▲ | eszed 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Indeed. We need better English teachers. :-) We won't get them unless we appreciate both teaching and the Humanities more than we do. I was good, but by no means the best (75th percentile, maybe?). I loved doing it, but changed careers to IT because I'd never have been able to support a family on what I was paid. A culture which pays teachers poorly, treats them with disrespect ("those who can do..."), and relentlessly emphasizes STEM, STEM, STEM is one that's slowly killing itself, no matter how much shiny tech at inflated valuations it turns out. | | |
| ▲ | sfn42 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I don't know how it is elsewhere, but where I grew up we had minimum word limits on pretty much all essays. Doesn't matter if you can say what you want to say in 6 sentences, you need 4000 words or 2 pages or whatever metric they use | | |
| ▲ | eszed a day ago | parent [-] | | Oh, of course. Length requirements are important, for the reasons I explained up-thread. However, if teachers accept any old thing ("padding") to reach the count, then that metric is arbitrary, which (justifiably!) makes students cynical. If a student can say all that they want to say in six sentences then they need to learn more about the topic, and / or think through their opinions more deeply. Teachers who do not take that next step are bad teachers, because they are neither modeling nor encouraging critical thinking. In some places the majority of teachers are themselves incapable of critical thinking, because those who are leave the profession (or the locale) for the reasons in my comment above. [Edit to add]: Please note that I say bad teachers, not bad people. Same goes for students / citizens, as well. The ability to think critically is not a determinate of moral worth, and in some ways and some cases might be anti-correlated. |
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| ▲ | eszed 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thank you! That's the most beautiful compliment I've received in a while. |
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| ▲ | xivzgrev 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Wish my high school English teachers had taught that. I remember fluffing essays to get to a minimum College admissions essays on the other hand had the opposite problem - answering a big question in 500 words. Each sentence needed to pack a punch. | | |
| ▲ | eszed 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Don't get me started on college admissions essays. Rich kids pay other people to write them. Poor kids don't understand the class-markers they're expected to include. If AI consigns them to the dustbin of history it might be the first unalloyed good that tech ever does. | | |
| ▲ | eszed a day ago | parent [-] | | Clarification: "that tech" meaning the direct antecedent: "[AI] tech", not tech in general. I'm a Humanities guy, not an idiot. :-) |
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| ▲ | ANewFormation 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One of my favorite Mark Twain quotes comes from one of his correspondences: 'My apologies for such a long letter, I hadn't the time to write a short one.' |
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| ▲ | portaouflop 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I never had that requirement outside the first years of school- where it’s more about writing practice than writing actual essays.
After it was always “must be below X pages” |
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| ▲ | bluGill 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | X words is supposed to be a proxy for do enough research that you have something to say with depth. A history of the world in 15 minutes better cover enough ground to be worth 15 minutes - as opposed to 1 minute and then filler words. Of course filler is something everyone who writes such a thing and comes up a few words short does - but you are supposed to go find something more to say. | |
| ▲ | QuadmasterXLII 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I eventually flipped from moaning about word count minimums to whining about conference page limits but it took a long, long time- well into grad school. The change came when I finally had something to say. | |
| ▲ | desdenova 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | When I was a lazy kid, and there was a requirement to fill a number of lines/pages, I'd just write with bigger letters. |
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