| ▲ | freedomben 2 days ago |
| > These mobile driver’s licenses (mDLs) will be issued by state driver’s license agencies, but the standards incorporated into the TSA rule require that they be deployed through smartphone platforms (i.e. Google and/or Apple) and operate through government apps that collect photos of users and log usage of these credentials. This is really disturbing in a number of different ways. It's bad enough to have the government requiring you to have a government-approved smart phone, but on top of that it's the logging and data analysis wet dream that authoriarian governments the world over could have only dreamed of. |
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| ▲ | EvanAnderson 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Along with that: > mDL apps will be required to log each time a digital ID is presented, and to whom. This is described as a measure to protect ID-holders’ privacy, despite the obvious risk posed by police or others being able to know when and to whom you have shown your ID. That's down right horrifying. |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Even worse, the whole thing is a cash cow for Idemia and a couple of other companies, who probably alt wrote the secret rules to benefit their company and prevent competition. |
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| ▲ | miohtama 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's not a dream. China and India have been doing it for a while. Discussed earlier https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41608810 |
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| ▲ | nritchie 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No need to get worked up. You can get a RealID compliant driver's license (plastic credit card sized item) or state ID (ditto) You don't need a smart phone. |
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| ▲ | potato3732842 2 days ago | parent [-] | | >You can get a RealID compliant driver's license (plastic credit card sized item) or state ID (ditto) You don't need a smart phone. For now. You used to be able to pay for parking without downloading an app. You used to be able to buy dynamite without doxing yourself to the feds (something that you don't really think is all that important until you have to clear a lot of forested land and the reality of your options for dealing with stumps and boulders becomes clear). | | |
| ▲ | gscott a day ago | parent [-] | | The Government kills a lot of people in various non-war wars around the world that create people who would like revenge because they saw their parents get burned to death, etc. by American made munitions. It might be part of becoming the dominant defense supplier. Our weapons are so complicated it takes a lot of American know how to keep them maintained and probably even fire them. This puts Americans everywhere with a conflict. We all get to pay with absolute security. If I killed people all of the time it would be hard to track who I killed, their living relations, even bystanders it makes sense to mistrust everyone. A few months ago going through a TSA line at an airport they were taking everyone's photo for biometrics and made it seem mandatory. I went along with it, not fighting it, maybe you can opt-out for a bit but eventually the Government always makes it mandatory. https://www.kxnet.com/news/top-stories/the-us-is-presently-i... https://www.palestinechronicle.com/let-him-never-be-forgotte... https://www.wsj.com/tech/cybersecurity/u-s-wiretap-systems-t... |
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| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It gets worse. In US most of the bigger corps institute some sort of means to authenticate you via cellphone, which means that if you want to be remote, phone is effectively a necessity ( which one usually does ). Only a year ago, it was still possible to avoid having to have a cell ( although that meant you had to be in person -- an interesting trade off in itself ). Anyway, I hate the now. |
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| ▲ | TeMPOraL 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | At my last workplace, I somehow managed to get away with only Microsoft Authenticator on my phone, with no actual remote management capabilities enabled. That's pretty much exactly where I draw the line: if I have to have a device to perform work functions, the workplace needs to supply it. I'm not going to put work data on my personal machines, and I'm definitely not letting a third party root my phone for me "for sekhurity", and apply work policies on my personal device. I'm okay with work 2FA on my phone, but only without MDM, as an exception for where otherwise there's no reason for me to have a work phone. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 2 days ago | parent [-] | | These days a lot of folks can probably do more than just authenticator on their personal device. Teams and Outlook, for example, are both able to run with the MDM-level controls the company wants but without the device-level MDM. It's part of the app and has no control over anything else. | | |
| ▲ | HWR_14 2 days ago | parent [-] | | And, as a plus, your phone can now be subject to a subpoena issued to your employer! I don't want their data on my device for a variety of reasons. Loss of control would be enough on it's own, but there are others. |
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| ▲ | henryfjordan 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Work with your IT dept. A company I previously worked for had a policy that if you had any company data on your phone, they had the right to force you to unlock it and look through it (not sure if they ever actually did but it was in the employee handbook). When IT tried introducing a system that required me to Auth with my phone I refused, citing the policy, and they helped me setup a workaround Yubikey. Might not be possible everywhere but worth a shot. Also always helps to make friends in IT. | |
| ▲ | ArchOversight 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ask for your corporation to give you a corporate phone. I have one for that reason, and it lives in the office alongside my work issued laptop. | |
| ▲ | michaelt 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Most places can issue you with a physical token instead, like a Yubikey. It's just unusual, so the first line in helpdesk don't always know about it. And people seldom want to start a battle with the bureaucracy on their first day on the job... |
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| ▲ | crazygringo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > It's bad enough to have the government requiring you to have a government-approved smart phone The government isn't requiring that. It's not forcing you to get a mobile ID. Your physical ID continues to be just fine. Mobile device ID's are simply for people who want the convenience of not carrying the physical one. Edit: geez, what's with the downvotes? I wasn't even defending anything. Just trying to keep things factually accurate here. |
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| ▲ | philistine 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Think long-term. In 40 years, when the last paper IDs are discontinued, we'll all be tracked, but the time to complain was now. | | | |
| ▲ | TeMPOraL 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > are simply for people who want the convenience That's the technological ratchet at work, as it has been since the dawn of humanity. A solution that's convenient or useful enough to gain wide adoption has a way of becoming a soft necessity, and eventually a hard one. Some examples that meaningfully affected our lives[0], in many ways not for the better: - An accurate clock / watch -- hard necessity. Good luck functioning in society without it. Opening hours, appointments, public transit schedules, are just few among many things synchronized in time, that expect you to have a clock so you can stay in sync too. And no, you can't get away with a rooster or a sundial, like you could 200 years ago - you need precision of at least a minute. - A car -- somewhere between hard and soft necessity, depending on where you live. The society expects you to be able to commute long distances in short time, for things like work, medical services, or government appointments. - Mobile phones, Internet, credit/debit cards -- soft necessities. You can sort of still live without them even in the big cities, but it's going to be a pain, as everything is optimized on the assumptions everyone owns a smartphone, has Internet access, bank account with a card, and increasingly often, means of contactless payments (think e.g. public transit). There's a reason even the poorest people without a roof over their heads still own iPhones, and it's not entertainment. - Government ID app, electronic IDs, other means to do official errands fully on-line - convenience for now. I feel they'll transition into soft necessities within next 10 years, simply because interacting with government is always very annoying, and those tools simplify that process and save you some trips. -- [0] - All in context of the developed/industrialized/western societies; of course this does not apply to societies that did not embrace a particular technology (yet). | | |
| ▲ | tzs 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > An accurate clock / watch -- hard necessity. Good luck functioning in society without it. Opening hours, appointments, public transit schedules, are just few among many things synchronized in time, that expect you to have a clock so you can stay in sync too. And no, you can't get away with a rooster or a sundial, like you could 200 years ago - you need precision of at least a minute. You might enjoy the short story "Chronopolis" by J.G. Ballard. It's set in a world where everything had been strictly done according to schedules to maximize efficiency, but it became too much and people rebelled and outlawed clocks. |
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| ▲ | SuperNinKenDo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Until they aren't. | | |
| ▲ | tshaddox 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Well sure. Physical IDs are also not tiny government listening devices either. Unit they are. |
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