| ▲ | johnea 11 hours ago |
| Personally, I don't see why anyone uses milk in any form, raw or otherwise. After being raised to think it was somehow not just OK, but almost mandatory to consume, I stopped all milk consumption, and almost all cheese and other dairy about 20 years ago. Maybe barely post-cave people needed it to survive, but in the modern world there is 0 reason to be consuming another species lactate. p.s. I would rate the addition of extra growth hormones (beyond what's already at naturally high levels due to being a lactate) as the biggest long term health problem with milk, moreso than weather it's pasturized or not. |
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| ▲ | nkrisc 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Maybe barely post-cave people needed it to survive Milk consumption is generally much more recent than that. Broadly speaking, while the ability for adult humans to digest milk probably arose several times independently in different populations throughout history, for most people of European descent it likely arose around the time the first Proto-Indo-Europeans were migrating from steppes of Asia to Europe. They were horse riders and herders it's likely their ability to digest milk from their herd animals gave them a huge advantage. While migrating it would have been an invaluable food source and likely gave them a physical advantage as well as some studies of remains from this time indicates they were physically larger on average than the native European populations they were displacing, which may help explain how they apparently dominated or assimilated the native groups so easily. If you look at maps of lactose intolerance world-wide, the countries with the lowest rates generally overlap with countries that speak languages in the Indo-European language family. I'm sure there's much more nuance to it than that, but lactose tolerance in adults is a relatively modern development. > but in the modern world there is 0 reason to be consuming another species lactate. I can think of at least two: many people think dairy products taste good and they are also good sources of nutrition. There are many good criticisms of the modern dairy industry and our culture in general, but the simple act of using milk from other animals isn't the problem. |
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| ▲ | reverendsteveii 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| hear me out: I want it. It tastes nice, I'm aware of the risks and I'm an adult with the wherewithal to make that decision. I will guarantee you there's some component of your diet that fails the "not strictly necessary and adds long-term health risk" test too. |
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| ▲ | giraffe_lady 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Unhomogenized pasteurized milk is indistinguishable. I have tried raw side by side with this from the same dairy and even as a working chef, I had to be taught which was which. | | |
| ▲ | reverendsteveii 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm not expressing an opinion on raw milk, I'm replying to a comment that was expressing an opinion on milk in general. I like milk. With that being said, I'm not a raw milk guy but I would hear an argument for someone's right to make that decision about their body for themselves. I'd be okay with there being some sort of mandatory information that has to be included with raw milk because, as you said, it's indistinguishable to our senses from pasteurized milk otherwise. We have several products that are known to be toxic but are still available for adults to choose to consume, and making the risks known directly on the packaging seems to be the middle road we've chosen. There's also the fact that raw milk is just better for home cheesemaking, if that's something your into. Even the FDA acknowledges that raw milk cheese is safe if it's aged for at least 60 days. Pasteurization tends to wreck proteins. If those proteins make up the cell wall of a harmful bacterium that's good. If you're counting on those proteins to make up the structure of a cheese block, that's gonna be bad for you. I've done some home cheesemaking but don't have access to raw milk, and its been to my detriment as a food nerd. | | |
| ▲ | giraffe_lady 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've done a good deal more than "some" cheese making and unhomogenized pasteurized is fine. Might be a skill issue. |
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| ▲ | tenpies 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because I am a young (and small) mammal that is still growing and hoping to put on as much muscle as possible. :) I'm quite literally who milk was made for. Your point about species is valid though and I can't say that if given an ample supply of human milk, I would be inclined to consume it. |
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| ▲ | aziaziazi 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure milk will help to build them! Vegetable will, too (see gorillas, the biggest and strongest humanoids) or soy for a boost. I don’t think being young add anything, a 40yo could also want to build muscle. You mention that you’re still growing, milk can help here too but also an exceptions: not a single mammal drink milk after babyhood. |
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| ▲ | bee_rider 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I can’t stand milk but I can’t imagine giving up cheese and icecream. |
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| ▲ | triyambakam 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Non dairy versions are pretty widely available and really tasty | | |
| ▲ | steve_adams_86 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not crazy about non-dairy cheeses (though some are getting to be good), but ice cream is firmly in the good enough to great category. I haven't enjoyed drinking milk on its own for so long that it doesn't even register as a concern. I've noticed some vegan soft cheeses like feta and cream cheese are way, way ahead of the melty or flavourful varieties that are heavily cultured, like blue cheese or parmesan. They seem to fall very short of the goal, but some are still good on a pasta or salad nonetheless. I found a cookie dough ice cream a few months back that is seriously incredible. I can't recall the brand, but I realized as I ate it that I don't really miss dairy ice cream anymore at all. I'm still hopeful for something like camembert or cheddar to appear that's as amazing as that cookie dough ice cream. Until then, I'm alright living without them. | |
| ▲ | NewJazz 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm vegan and I'm going to go ahead and disagree with the statement that non-dairy cheese is tasty. It is also expensive and lots of restaurants don't even offer it as an option. | |
| ▲ | bee_rider 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have had some pretty good avocado icecream. But, it was not quite as creamy and I only found chocolate (not sure if the limited flavor selection was because it is niche, or because of something in the nature of avocado). | |
| ▲ | aziaziazi 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’m not American but if I would keep one think of this country, it would be diary-free Ben and Jerry’s without a spoon of hesitation. | |
| ▲ | xboxnolifes 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Some non-diary ice cream, sure. Non-dairy cheese? There isn't a single tasty one. | |
| ▲ | bigstrat2003 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's certainly a take. Non-dairy ice cream and cheese is utter garbage in my opinion. Not worth the calories. |
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| ▲ | aziaziazi 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > After being raised to think it was somehow not just OK, but almost mandatory to consume Congratulation to overcome your family’s beliefs. How did you do? Habits refrain rational thinking, it’s hard to overcome them, especially for adults. |
