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Yeltsin was trying to reform the Soviet system. He was a party higher up, surely he knew what he’d find in a supermarket. He’d had a long political career by the. My guy says the supermarket tour was “staged” in the sense that he knew what he was going to find and he knew what reaction would be politically helpful for his project.

This isn’t to say the Soviet Union was, like, a good pleasant place to live. But we shouldn’t accept Soviet propaganda just because it happens to align with our priors.

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mike_hearn 2 hours ago | parent [-]

He didn't according to his biographer, and it definitely wasn't staged. The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions as he explored the shop, see the photo on this page:

https://www.cato.org/blog/happy-yeltsin-supermarket-day

Soviet supermarkets were drastically more impoverished at that time. No comparison.

Censorship is a problem because it affects everyone, especially the higher ups. That's why he'd got into the habit of demanding surprise inspections. As a factory manager he'd accepted that everyone was always hiding the truth from him. In systems like that there isn't any point in the hierarchy where you your boss takes you to one side and says Boris, listen, there's a vault with all our secrets and truths, let me show you. It never happens. The people at the top have to believe in the system the most of all.

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bee_rider an hour ago | parent [-]

> The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions as he explored the shop,

This isn’t really evidence that it wasn’t staged by him though. That is, he doesn’t need to tell the host that he’s going to react strongly. He was a political operator, I’m sure he’d be happy to dupe some supermarket owner.

> Soviet supermarkets were drastically more impoverished at that time. No comparison.

> Censorship is a problem because it affects everyone, especially the higher ups. That's why he'd got into the habit of demanding surprise inspections. As a factory manager he'd accepted that everyone was always hiding the truth from him. In systems like that there isn't any point in the hierarchy where you your boss takes you to one side and says Boris, listen, there's a vault with all our secrets and truths, let me show you. It never happens. The people at the top have to believe in the system the most of all.

Sure, but this wasn’t secret information. America was broadcasting information about our wealth around the world. I guess we probably have people on this site who were in the Soviet Union during the 80’s. Maybe they can recall what they thought was going on over here.

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mike_hearn an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Sure, but this wasn’t secret information

Of course it was! All information about the true state of the west was censored and controlled. Today North Korea does the same thing for the same reason.

"Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union

"Due to the appearance of foreign radio stations broadcasting in Russian territory and their immunity from censorship, as well as the appearance of a large number of shortwave receivers, massive jamming of these stations was applied in the USSR using high-power radio-electronic equipment. It continued for almost 60 years until the end of the Cold War. The Soviet radio censorship network was the most extensive in the world."

	▲	sangnoir 35 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced Do you suppose Yeltsin didn't have access to the uncensored information before his visit? Or that Soviet spies who sent in hyper-accurate maps of US city infrastructure wouldn't be asked to report on the booming economic success of American retail?

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bombcar an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Even if the information about our wealth was available; it was likely discounted and ignored; even North Korea can make charade supermarkets as necessary.

There's a difference between hearing something and seeing it everywhere.