He is wrong about that with the current technology. All you have to do to see that is look at Israel vs. Iran. In a decade drone technology might be enough to do something similar to what the F35 does, but right now the F35 is still the peek of technology. There's a reason Israel ordered more of them.

AI might be able to do a dogfight which is great in terms of flight envelope, but completely unnecessary in modern stealth warfare. Despite everything you heard, stealth does work. It isn't perfect but it destroyed Russia's top of the line anti-aircraft missiles in Iran without a problem. The planes are ghosts, by the time you see them it's already too late.

Drones have the advantage of reduced risk to the pilot but since a human sitting at the base will have to deal with signal delay, transmission jamming and low resolution... The difference in having a pilot physically present is huge. AI is unpredictable and unreliable e.g. Iranians were able to fool a US army drone by sending it signals that made it land. Then they took it apart and reverse engineered it.

▲ rstuart4133 8 months ago | parent [-]

Yet in Ukraine we see the reverse effect. Russia has some very advanced planes that are barely used.

It seems to come down to this: for the same money you can buy 1 F35 or 10,000 long range drones. If you are an army with a few SAM's, what you scare you more: a single F35 coming over the hill, or a swarm of drones so large you had no hope of taking them all out?

	▲	JohnBooty 8 months ago \| parent \| next [-]
		`Russia has some very advanced planes that are barely used.` I wouldn't extrapolate too much from the fact that the Su-57 are rarely if ever seen in this conflict. For a long time they apparently only had two operational Su-57s. Apparently now they have 5-7? This is not a "production" aircraft as we would understand it in the west. Its actual stealth ability is also highly suspect. The official photos as well as photos from airshows have shown some sloppy physical construction that would compromise any stealth ability. `If you are an army with a few SAM's, what you scare you more: a single F35 coming over the hill, or a swarm of drones so large you had no hope of taking them all out?` For some kinds of targets, the drones. For other kinds of targets, the F35. While your comparison makes sense from a budget perspective, it's not necessarily realistic though. Nobody has the ability to launch that many drones at once and nobody is flying in a single F35. Also, respectfully, a lot of the anti-manned-fighter arguments boil down to "drones are really good and useful!" Which is true, but also not something that anybody disputes. Even the most diehard defender of manned aircraft is going to tell you that drones are a huge part of the future of war. And that manned fighters are niche.
	▲	invalidname 8 months ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Russia has nothing like the F35 and Ukraine has planes too (although not as great). Once Ukraine got F16s they had an impact (even though it's a very old model). The idea of a drone swarm is science fiction at this time. First, it's not 10,000 drones. Maybe the low quality stuff Iran builds is that cheap. A good western drone will be expensive but also of far higher quality. If you try to send a drone cloud then they are easily detected and you can just shoot them down. If you send them one by one then they get detected one at a time. A few get through as we see with Israel who dealt with well over 30,000 drones/rockets over the past year... But it took them a year to launch 30,000 rockets/drones. They did very little damage. You need logistics to send them out big logistics are a big target for an F35. If you do it from far away (like sending drones from Iran) then radars have a lot of time to pick them up and shoot them down. If you do it from close by (like Lebanon) then some might get through but the F35 in the sky will destroy you very fast. Finally, they all need to fly autonomously which is flawed. You can take them down like ducks in a row. Any soldier with a smart scope can just bring down a drone. Not to mention their deep vulnerability to electronic jamming. I used to think like you as an engineer. But having spoken to people who actually know this stuff I understood the difference. Yes, there is a price disparity which is why the Israeli army has both drones and F35. Different tools for different jobs. A drone can't carry the damage and logistics an F35 can. But sending an F35 to shoot down drones is a remarkable waste of resources. That's why Israel is working on energy/laser based defense systems which will make a swarm of 10,000 drones completely useless but won't even scratch an F35.