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anon291 3 days ago

> And yet it’s not obvious that we have produced either a better leadership class or a healthier relationship between our society and its elites

Part of the problem is as follows and I see it so often in politics.

We have an excellent technocratic leadership class.

But being a technocratic leader does not make you a great leader of people, and frankly -- given the way many technocratic fields in the humanities are taught -- getting too deep in them makes you actively unappealing to people.

The article derides the various social clubs at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc as 'non-academic', but nothing is further from the truth. Humans have an innate draw to beauty, and one thing that is beautiful to basically everyone is a rich culture with traditions, institutions, and members [1]. One way to signal that is by learning the social niceties inside and out. This is no less academic since it doesn't come from a book.

The 'grinds', as the article says, didn't get that, and they were shunned not because they focused on books, but because they were unable to have a more expansive view of academics.

It is shocking to me when I see pundits today seemingly confused why the masses find appeal in particular candidates despite the pundits being able to list ten technical reasons why he should be disqualified. They don't understand how people perceive things, and it's so painful to watch.

I feel as someone who occupies a sort of 'third space' here [2], I am really truly able to see both viewpoints. But it's so difficult to explain to a technocrat the full range of human emotion, and it sometimes appears as if they've been handicapped in their ability to feel it.

As an example (and I would recommend Camille Paglia's works), it's fascinating to me how, despite our ever growing technical ability to produce great film, the actual emotional content of the film is ever worse. We have the most scantily clad females of all time but the fully clothed actors and actresses of the past were actually more sexually enticing. We've lost the sense of awe that CS Lewis talks about in the Abolition of Man. We have the greatest visual effects, but the emotional content of the film is so thin that you just don't feel anything.

Where these feelings do exist, it's in independent (read: not produced by the Ivy type) films and media, which is why 'alternate' media has suddenly become so popular.

I'll also just leave that Donald Trump has an innate understanding of people. People are shocked that he's able to get so many seemingly random, seemingly opposed people behind him. They classify it as a trick. But it's not. People vote and support who they like, not who has the best technocratic solutions. That is neither good nor bad. It just is. It's a tale as old as time, and would be apparent if you studied the actual humanities.

Just so no one thinks I think Trump is some singular. Barack Obama is also one of these figures. And even Joe Biden is to some extent [3]

I can write a dissertation on this topic.

[1] It doesn't matter the culture. All traditional cultures are enthralling

[2] I was raised in the 'normal' way, but ended up at a second-tier 'elite' school, and then -- adopting some of the stuff I learned -- moved into strategy consulting at one of the Big 3 where I learned even more about this type. I eventually moved back into tech (and do feel my career is better for having been through these experiences).

[3] Completely off-topic, but I also think that if you go to spaces inhabited by the technocrats, you'll notice that 'detachment' philosophies like Stoicism and Buddhism are very popular, whereas the masses go for attachment. It's not a surprise to me that the Kennedy family, being Catholic, the exact opposite of Buddhism in that sense, was always seen as particularly charismatic and alluring amongst political dynasties

corimaith 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Perhaps a more crude label of what you ascribing to technocrats is the term "Soulless".

watwut 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People are surprised over Trump, because of what it applies about conservative peoples hypocrisy. Conservativism is typically approached with massive amount of naivety and undeserved trust. They lie, they complain about things they don't mind, then they state their plans out loud and pundit class is still "they cant be as bad as they say". Trump and the people he is choosing winning three times clearly show who these people are ... and pundits cant admit it. Moderate republicans cant admit it either to themselves.

The confusement is because if Trump won primaries three times, it clearly means you do not care about respectability no matter how much you pretended being outraged over minor non-issues in the past. It means you do not mind lying, actually. It means you do actually want pure destruction and are in fact motivated by misogyny and all those bad things.

But, we want to believe in good of the massive amount of people. We do not want to believe that conservative Christians will do anything just to get control over women back. Or that they actually want to destroy the democracy.

CapricornNoble 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> It means you do actually want pure destruction and are in fact motivated by misogyny and all those bad things.

Do you genuinely think this is why Trump won the election?

How do you explain Trump pulling in massive amounts of former-Democrat stalwarts, like black and Hispanic men, or Muslims?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/11/...

Do you think Muslim women went into the voting booth thinking "can't wait to destroy democracy!"? They may have miscalculated Trump's support for Zionism (Miriam Adelson donated ~$100 million to his campaign), but if anything that reinforces GP's point: human emotion is drawn to the likeable person, and likability needs to be accounted for.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2024/11/05/voter-demographics-...

^This page has a great graph depicting how minority men, in particular those under 30, wholesale abandoned the Dems this year. Those aren't demographics known for their Christian conservatism.

https://apnews.com/article/election-harris-trump-women-latin...

anon291 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> People are surprised over Trump, because of what it applies[do you mean implies?] about conservative peoples hypocrisy.

Technocrats talk about hypocrits. Lovers of the humanities talk about people.

People don't operate on principles. They operate on human emotion, which is a very real force. It is no less real than facts, figure, logic, or rationality. Trump's shooting, his McDonald's stunt, his garbage vest/truck, and his ability to exude his brand are actual skills, and signs of a different kind of intelligence. Until people get that, they will be perpetually confused.

A lot of pollsters around the issue of the economy for example threw their hands in the air this election. The numbers looked good, they said, so how come people feel that it's not working? They blamed 'the vibe'. But 'the vibe' is a very real force, that one must contend with when you study human behavior and emotion.

The problem is that -- instead of studying literature, philosophy, religion, art, music, dance, etc, i.e., the real humanities -- the 'humanities' PhDs, the sociologists, the pollsters, etc, all studied statistics for human management essentially. We've lost so much by not focusing on the actual humanities

> Moderate republicans cant admit it either to themselves.

Moderate republicans -- if you mean the lincoln project crowd -- are the worst perpetrators of the problems addressed in the article

> But, we want to believe in good of the massive amount of people. We do not want to believe that conservative Christians will do anything just to get control over women back. Or that they actually want to destroy the democracy.

oof... read and believe too much of the Ivy League output I see. You know it's a grift for them too right? Just look at President Biden (a graduate of the Ivies if I'm not mistaken) being all smiles after the man he called Hitler came to the white house to take over.

MandieD 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

“President Biden (a graduate of the Ivies if I'm not mistaken)”

You’re quite mistaken there: he did his undergrad at the very public University of Delaware, and went to law school at private but definitely not Ivy League Syracuse.

anon291 2 days ago | parent [-]

Oh interesting. TIL!

watwut 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure, but I read and listened A LOT about principles from christians, conservatives and republicans. And they mock everybody elses emotions, except their own which are super important.

Yes emotions are real force. I am glad we are admiting it, because god, the conservatives LOVE to pretend they are being rational when they are ... not.

anon291 3 days ago | parent [-]

Did you have something constructive you wanted to talk about either about what I wrote or the article, or did you just want to have your say on christians, conservatives, and republicans? If the former, I'm happy to engage. If the latter, I'll just let your comment stand on its demerits.

matrix87 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> It's not a surprise to me that the Kennedy family, being Catholic, the exact opposite of Buddhism in that sense, was always seen as particularly charismatic and alluring amongst political dynasties

I don't think the "technocrats" (or whatever they're called, "materialistic liberals", yada yada) are drawn to Buddhism and stoicism because of their actual content. Platonism is an extreme form of a detachment style philosophy. Platonism and Christianity are brother and sister

If I had to guess, they choose Buddhism et al because it fills a similar hole that Christianity filled, but it doesn't put them on the same dirty level that the masses are on

anon291 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Platonism and Christianity are brother and sister

While certainly many Christian philosophers cite Platonism, I think you're missing the point. Buddhism encourages a detached style of living life. In practice, in its traditional form, I don't think it suggests ignoring relationships and turning inwards. However, in the practice of America's aristocracy, it takes on these tones.

However, Christianity, especially Catholic Christianity, is explicitly in favor of attachment to people. It's not like Buddhism in that sense, and especially not the pop 'Buddhism' practiced in cities by young Americans today.