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godelski 4 days ago

I agree, that its the intent. The downside of the US is that it moves slow. But the upside is that it’s the oldest country in the world if you measure by (codified) constitution. You might think European countries are older but Germany didn’t exist till the late 1940’s. If you really want to stretch it you can argue early 1800’s but that’s facetious.

The point is to be highly distributed. Many keys to power. It makes it hard to get shit done when people are unwilling to work together (read partisan hacks). Which is what makes it strong against takeover, even getting half the keys will still grind your takeover to a slow roll. That’s petty robust to adversaries.

I have a hot take. My faith in the system strengthened with Trump and especially the stupid coup. Because I saw a man try very hard to take over and despite having a coalition that was practicing party over country, he still couldn’t. Though how many keys does he have now and did he do the legwork to make it work a second time? That we’ll see. But even then, I think it tells a successful story of robustness. That it took a few hundred years of growing power and extreme partisanship to break it. Clearly it can be and needs to be improved but clearly it’s got something of value. Something to learn from and iterate from rather than rework from scratch. I’m not aware of any country that’s survived under such extreme circumstances, but I’m not knowledgeable enough here. Please correct me but cite so I can learn more. Defining what is a country, let alone a continuous empire is very messy business with a lot of national narrative tied in (we can even argue the US’s fragmentation would disqualify, but the constitution stayed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

shiroiushi 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

>it’s the oldest country in the world if you measure by (codified) constitution

I think a better way of phrasing it might be "a continuous system of government". Germany certainly existed before the late 1940s, but the system of government was obviously very, very different.

godelski 3 days ago | parent [-]

  > Defining what is a country, let alone a continuous empire is very messy business with a lot of national narrative tied in
Definitely gets fuzzy with definitions when we have things like Prussia, German unification, the German Empire, and all that. Especially, again, with the national narrative. It is messy business and I think we often pretned it is a lot cleaner than it actually is.
shiroiushi 3 days ago | parent [-]

It's not that messy, it's just a disagreement about what a "country" is. You're thinking with the European mindset of "nation", where a country is defined by its borders, history, etc. The OP is thinking with the American mindset where the country is defined by its founding documents and legal principles. They're entirely different.

In the latter mindset, Prussia, the German Empire, etc., really have nothing to do with modern Germany, because Germany is not a kingdom or empire, it's a country that was founded in 1945/6 by Allied occupiers. The only messy thing about it is the reunification in the early 1990s, because two formerly separate countries (DDR and BRD), with extremely different systems of government, were stuck together, but under the same system of government as the western side, which really makes it an annexation.

bilekas 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> But the upside is that it’s the oldest country in the world if you measure by (codified) constitution.

Iceland would very much like a word about this. But your point in fair, maybe phrased a bit wrong.

godelski 3 days ago | parent [-]

  >> Please correct me but cite so I can learn more
Wiki says

  > The current constitution was first instituted on 17 June 1944 when Iceland became a republic; since then, it has been amended seven times.
The earliest date I even see in the wiki is 1849 which isn't even really on topic.

The official document also says 1944[0]

  CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF ICELAND
  (No. 33, 17 June 1944, as amended 30 May 1984, 31 May 1991, 28 June 1995 and 24 June 1999)
So I'm going to need that citation because I'm having a hard time verifying what you're saying.

[0] https://www.government.is/library/01-Ministries/Prime-Minist...

yownie 3 days ago | parent [-]

he is speaking of our [Alþingi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althing) which has existed since 930.