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thuanao 3 days ago

Is anyone getting compensated for being on-call? If you are paged and work outside of business hours, do you receive additional compensation?

alienchow 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Google paid SREs 67% their hourly rate for tier 1 oncall outside business hours, regardless of whether they were paged. So 12h shifts on weekends were a full day's pay. Convertible to Off-in-Lieu. I had so many off days. Not sure if it's still the case after those layoffs.

Anyway, I prefer Mon - Thu, Fri - Sun shifts.

ndjdjddjsjj 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Damn stuff like this motivates me to start a union

skuzye 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Still the case. It’s a good system IMO. My team is low toil and low page it’s basically free money/time off

alienchow 2 days ago | parent [-]

I agree, it incentivises SREs to reduce pager toil.

themenomen 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. And not only for responding to a page, but also for being stand by outside working hours.

tdeck 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At Google we used to get paid an oncall bonus which was calculated at something like 1/3 your prorated salary for the non-working hours you were oncall (IIRC), up to some limit per quarter. For my team a week of oncall per quarter would max it out and net you a few thousand dollars bonus.

thaumasiotes 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> up to some limit per quarter. For my team a week of oncall per quarter would max it out

That reminds me of Amazon's abysmally bad employee discount, which was "10% off anything on the site, up to $100 / year".

kevinventullo 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Google still does this. Roughly speaking, hitting the limit in a quarter means you have <= 5 people on the rotation.

mrweasel 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In a previous job yes. 7200DKK per week for on-call. Hours where between 17:00 and 08:00 on weekdays and all of Saturday and Sunday, running Friday to Friday. From 8:00 to 17:00 the normal service desk would handle incidents.

If you got paged you'd get 150% of your hourly pay, per started hour. So if you got pages at 22:00 and again at 3:00 that's three hours of pay, regardless of each issue only taking 5 or 10 minutes to fix.

That's roughly $1000/€950 per week of on-call, plus the hours. You'd have four/five of these per year and you could pick up an extra month of pay per year with the standby pay, plus the hours and maybe pick up another day here and there.

Holidays where normally distributed on a volunteer basis (you'd still get paid, but you opted-in to those days). So maybe I'd be home on New Years, but out on Christmas, so I'd offer to cover Christmas, while another colleague might care more about being able to drink on New Years.

Originally we where almost 50 people handling on-call, so you'd have one week per year, but that's not sustainable, you forget how to handle common issues or how to fill out incident reports and handoff correctly.

The most stupid on-call schedule I ever did was midnight to midnight, every other day... It was only me an my boss. That was incredibly stupid, because you couldn't go out on one day, and the day where you could go out, you had to be careful about having one drink to many.

waetsch 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, 350€ (before taxes of course) per week. No additional compensation for responding/ working on incidents.

I would be interested in how response times are?

Mine is 15mins. So I have to respond and be in a incident call within 15mins.

andrewaylett 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not that way around, no -- paying extra when paged creates a perverse incentive. We're paid to make ourselves available, and encouraged to take any time we actually spend working out of hours back in lieu.

My team have put a lot of effort into only rarely being paged: a normal week on-call won't have any out-of-hours activity at all.

looperhacks 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We're being compensated for being available (more on weekends and holidays) and get additional compensation for every 30 minutes incident response. Two incidents in one night? Twice the money. Additionally, we are required to work less the next day (we're also required by law to have at least eight hours of free time between two work days. So if you get an incident seven hours after you got off work? Congrats, you now have to wait eight hours before you can start working. This is of course very annoying, so nobody does that)

I'm not even sure if doing on-call duty without compensation is legal in my country.

In the past, there were some cases of "fake" incidents, but the amount of documentation makes sure that the company is able to crack down on this.

danielbarla 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In my previous job, the company followed the country's laws pretty much to the letter. Simply being on call gave some small fraction of my "hourly rate" (despite being a full time employee), which actually does add up, since e.g. on a weekend you are accumulating 48 hours of such on call time (while on weekdays it's only 16 per day, as your actual 8 hours worked is not counted twice).

If there was an actual incident, you'd get paid as if that was overtime worked, and it depended on when it occurred (e.g. weekends and public holidays carried a higher than normal multiplier). There were also limits on how much rest you'd need to be guaranteed, etc.

On average, our actual incidents were relatively infrequent, and the pay out mostly depended on the size of the team, which dictated how often you got rotated in. It worked out to something like +10% salary though.

smasty 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, a flat daily fee during the week, and double that during the weekend or public holidays. Comes to ~600€ per week. If you actually get paged, you automatically get time off for the amount of hours you spent dealing with the incident.

lightning19 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Based on the replies to this I didn't realize how bad we have it in South Africa. I was on call 24x7 for 2 years and was not paid anything for it.

Big ecommerce companies and even global brands like AWS and BMW require 24x7 on call without any compensation.

strken 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At my last job I got time off in lieu for actual hours worked + about $4/hour for being on-call.

I really wish we'd gotten paid for hours worked rather than TOIL, not for personal preference but because it would have aligned the company's incentives better. We might actually have fixed some of the problems if not doing so cost the business a tangible sum of money.

Still, it was better than working for free.

tiahura 3 days ago | parent [-]

That's the way it was 20-30 years ago. If you were on call, it was informally understood that you were going to be rolling in late in the morning, at if something big happened, you'd be missing a day or two afterwards.

Worked well until E&Y came in and "fixed" things with a strategic plan.

sunaookami 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was on-call on a Saturday at the start of November and the prod issue took nearly 10 hours. No extra compensation from my company (not required by law in my country for saturdays but come on!). A week later I had to do it Monday night again, still no extra compensation... I can work less with these extra hours but... when?

pnutjam 3 days ago | parent [-]

ah, the ever popular evaporating comp time. If companies prefer that I tell people to be sure to comp your time ASAP. No 50 or 60 hour week heroes.

pnutjam 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Last job I was compensated a flat $450 for being on call 1 week, on top of my salary in the 140K range. Everybody received the same on-call pay and I'm pretty sure salaries were similar but not identical.

oncallthrow 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At mine: compensated for being on-call, but it's a pittance (in the 100-200 per week range, which is nowhere near being worth it). We get TOIL for time spent responding to incidents.

losteric 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On my teams, if someone got paged off-hours they would just work less the day after the event. imo it should just be part of the regular salary/work expectations, incentivizing keeping oncall low

kelnos 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Gross, no. This just allows management to ignore problems and push development teams to do feature work, even when everything is on fire and the oncall person is getting paged multiple times per day.

Oncall should be compensated, always. The oncall person should get a flat rate just for being on standby, and should also receive a per-page payout, and that amount should be larger if the page happens outside regular business hours.

Then management will actually realize there's a cost to pushing features and pulling in deadlines at the expense of robust engineering practices. Or they can decide they are fine with that, and paying the oncall person is a cost of doing business they way they want to.

I've seen too many instances either issues they come up during oncall never get fixed, and just page and page and page.

I will never again work at a company where oncall is "just a part of the job". I value my own time too much.

sgarland 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Or they can decide they are fine with that, and paying the oncall person is a cost of doing business they way they want to.

I was going to say, this would almost certainly be the outcome. Companies have no problem throwing millions at AWS, DataDog, etc. They certainly aren’t going to blink at an employee making a couple hundred bucks extra per day.

rk06 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, it should be compensated, so Management prioritises fixing issues, instead of adding new bugs

Buttons840 3 days ago | parent [-]

I've wished for a tech workers union for this reason. I don't care about pay, let the union say nothing about pay.

But let's align incentives. Any time spent fixing issues on-call is compensated 4-to-1. Workers may accrue compensation time, and any compensation time in excess of 20 hours is paid 10-to-1 when the employee leaves. The idea here isn't for workers to accrue and cash out comp time, but instead to give an incentive to the organization to ensure workers use their comp time.

Let's align incentives, what's hard on the worker should be hard on the owners and management.

cess11 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

All you need is three people that agree on one realistic change at your workplace and you have a union. From there you start having regular meetings and plan a strategy for pushing this single issue.

When that's done, chill for a while, do some recruiting and education in the workplace and think about what the next realistic change ought to be.

erik_seaberg 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

We can pay for oncall availability, but rewarding outages and slow recoveries is a dangerous incentive.

tkzed49 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Where I work, this would have no impact on the amount of tasks shoved into the pipeline by product and leadership.

kelnos 3 days ago | parent [-]

Perhaps not, but at least the oncall person will be compensated for the crap they have to put up with.

icedchai 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I worked at one place that paid an extra $500/week for on-call. That was a flat fee.

phito 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Getting paid twice as much and less taxes. But it almost never happens, and I prefer it this way :)

ackermann-m-n 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

In France it is mandatory either with salary or rest. In addition the labor code stipulates mandatory daily rest of 11 contiguous hours even during the weekend and extra 24 contiguous hours of rest during the weekend. Hours of intervention are considered work.

In my company we get approximately 800€ for every week of on-call and each hour of intervention is also compensated with salary.

From my point of view this should be high enough for the company to be willing to focus on on-call issues. Ater years of being on-call I must admit the salary is comfortable but it doesn't cover the pain and constraints of being on-call: being kinda "stuck" at home basically, lots of consequences on private life etc.