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throwway120385 3 days ago

Why do you think that business value is the only thing to look at here? If someone starts copying my likeness, mannerisms, writing style, etc. they could also use that to damage my reputation or harm my relations with other people. I think that those two possibilities represent irreparable harms with no associated business value.

TeMPOraL 3 days ago | parent [-]

> If someone starts copying my likeness, mannerisms, writing style, etc. they could also use that to damage my reputation or harm my relations with other people. I think that those two possibilities represent irreparable harms with no associated business value.

There's 8 billion people on the planet. Unless you're a celebrity, this is not a real problem for you at this point (and if you are, it's a business problem).

There's no way for a large model learning on the entirety of the Internet to somehow convert "copying likeness, mannerisms, writing style, etc." into damaging your reputation; doing that is something hyper-targeted, and at this point (and in conceivable future), there's no middle ground between "plausible deniability" and "someone targeting you specifically, which they could do just as well in pre-AI times".

You're also not as unique as you think. There are many people with same mannerism, many people with same writing style, etc. Nor are those things constant over time.

The flip side of not being a unique snowflake is also that anyone's contributions to the public Internet are, for purposes of AI training, worth approximately $0 on the margin, and impact the model just as much. It's in the volume of data that the patterns emerge that LLMs learn, volume too big for any person to be entitled to a meaningful part of it.

throwway120385 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You could also make the same argument about check forgery or wire fraud. "If someone passes a bad check in your name it's not a big deal because you're only one of 8 billion." However when it happens to you, specifically, it's a big deal because you have to fight the bank and the merchant over it.

"You're not special" is a bad argument for why someone impersonating you isn't a problem. I mean even Black Mirror explained why impersonation is a problem in the very first episode many years ago. You don't even have to be a celebrity, you only have to be in someone else's way.

TeMPOraL 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> You could also make the same argument about check forgery or wire fraud.

You couldn't, because unlike all the things we discussed about AI, those are actually harming the victim in real, direct terms.

Having some model who doesn't know or care about you talking just like you, without claiming it's actually you, to a bunch of people who don't know or care you exist? That's zero actual damage to you.

> "You're not special" is a bad argument for why someone impersonating you isn't a problem. I mean even Black Mirror explained why impersonation is a problem in the very first episode many years ago.

I remember that episode. However, my argument isn't "you're not special, therefore impersonating you isn't a problem" - it's "you're not special, so what you think is impersonating you probably isn't, and even if, it doesn't hurt you in real terms", combined with "anything that's actual impersonation and/or hurts you directly was already possible, and AI currently doesn't impact this at all". Someone wants to screw with you? You're being targeted. AI might make the attacker's job a bit easier, but it's still someone going through the effort, vs. a background process on the Internet everyone seems to think LLMs are.

Also: there's an inverse relationship between weight of accusations and social proximity. A specific person you know (and other people know you know) accusing you of something? It's a problem. Some random comments from random accounts, accusing you and 100 different people of something? Most people won't believe it.

(Except when it's about child abuse. People are extremely sensitive to this - just bringing up the term and a name in the same sentence can ruin the victim's life.)

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