| ▲ | 3vidence 4 days ago |
| Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here... |
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| ▲ | grvbck 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Yup, there is a legal concept called excessive self-defense. |
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| ▲ | sureIy 4 days ago | parent [-] | | It's completely reasonable to exterminate an entire ants colony if 5 ants bite you, or at least that's their logic here, including the "ants" part. But of course we know the "self-defense" part is just a cover for the underlying desire to destroy the colony to build a nice villa. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault War is hell. But this war could have been conducted better. Yes, aid was being diverted by Hamas. But that doesn't mean you stop providing it, it means you do what you must to take control on the ground. The deaths from bombings, et cetera have not been found to be war crimes. The starvation, which was and continues to be avoidable, is. |
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| ▲ | thrance 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Also it goes much deeper than that. They were many masscres in Palestine before october 7th, and in Israel as well... A solution would necessarily involves less violence, not more, and at this very instant Israel is the one doing most of it. |
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| ▲ | rasz 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure, like bullied kid getting suspended because all this trouble is because of him. |
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| ▲ | tetromino_ 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's morally justified for a bullied kid to punch back (and punch hard). It's not morally justified for a bullied kid to chain the doors closed and set fire to the bully's apartment building. | |
| ▲ | 3vidence 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well again in the analogy the issue seems not to be Isreal defending itself (i do believe they have the right to do so as should any country). The issues seems to be retaliation against a civilian population. Really attacking civilians seems to be the major war crimes on both sides of this conflict |
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| ▲ | klipt 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Doesn't seem to accomplish much in the age of remote work. Putin has had an arrest warrant for years and he just attended the BRICS summit remotely instead of in person. Since in theory they would be obligated to arrest him in person. But seemed they had no problem letting him attend by video call. |
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| ▲ | babkayaga 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | babkayaga 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | ipaddr 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How does that lineup with Ukraine. Would Zelensky and Putin and everyone who played a role including Biden get an arrest warrant? |
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| ▲ | cwkoss 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The idea of moral wars is a myth manufactured by the war propaganda machine. I wouldn't object to all three of them being tried. I think Zelensky probably has the strongest defense, but I'm not fully informed on the conflict. | | |
| ▲ | ClassyJacket 4 days ago | parent [-] | | So, just to be clear, you think any country that's invaded should just immediately surrender? So if I invade the US tomorrow with a sharpened stick, they have to hand their country over because any kind of defence is immoral? | | |
| ▲ | maronato 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This comment is just disingenuous. You know that isn’t what they meant. | |
| ▲ | cwkoss 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/16/ukraine-must-i... "A controversial Amnesty International report asserted that Ukrainian military tactics put civilians in danger. Video footage has since been published suggesting that Ukrainian troops may have executed surrendering Russian officers in the town of Makiivka. Back in 2019, the International Criminal Court (ICC) determined that Ukrainian forces committed possible war crimes against Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine. To be clear: none of these allegations draws moral or legal equivalency between the acts of Ukrainian and Russian forces. Any alleged crimes committed by Ukrainian officers pale in comparison to the aggression and barbarity Russian forces have demonstrated in Ukraine. But all atrocities must be accounted for, not just those of one’s enemies." | | |
| ▲ | Svoka 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh. Aljazeera and Amnesty International
Nice combo | | |
| ▲ | cwkoss 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, they are both organizations with very high integrity and credibility...? Kind of perplexed what your worldview even is. |
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| ▲ | Svoka 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | By the way. Crimes agains humanity/war crimes are on different scale. Like perpetrating genocide, stealing children, etc. Individual crimes are prosecuted as well, but Zelensky hasn't much to do with regular war crap, if it is not systemic and/or basically formalized and encouraged, as is the case in russia. Russian playbook includes in every occupied town to set up torture/rape station where they put anyone suspicious. You can guess what happens next. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Crimes against humanity/war crimes are on different scale. You're getting way too cerebral for this thread. The people who say "they're all equally guilty" don't care about such considerations. They're just trying to make a blanket moral relativism argument. Which basically goes: "They're all bad to some degree, therefore they're all equally bad, or at least we can stop focusing on the one that's obviously much worse than the others." It's not an argument at all really, but more like an emotional appeal. |
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| ▲ | tacheiordache 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| No but this opinion is unjustifiably considered antisemitic and you couuld potentially have unwanted repercussions e.g. lose your job if you make it public. Such are the times we live in. |
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| ▲ | 3vidence 4 days ago | parent [-] | | For context, I'm not American and I would have trouble understanding how this could be conceived as antisemitic?? Also mentioned in another comment I do believe Isreal has a right to defend itself but not to commit war crimes against civilians... that seems to be the issue here. | | |
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