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▲ insane_dreamer 5 days ago

> state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member

good for them; is there some reason they shouldn't have?

▲ComputerGuru 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Absolutely not; in fact, I was commending them for it.

▲ljsprague 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Now do Tibet.

▲bushbaba 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲chakintosh 4 days ago | parent [-]

It's a country that was stolen, gutted and defaced when Israel was created. So yeah, i'm not surprised people like you still think Palestine is not a state...

▲nailer 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲cwkoss 5 days ago | parent [-]

The scale of torture and killing perpetrated by the IDF and illegal settlers inside Palestinian territory is several orders of magnitude larger, and the right of an occupied people to resist violently is protected by international law.

▲nailer 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲insane_dreamer 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

If you're going to go back to 1967 to explain the WB occupation, then you have to go back to the war of 1948 whereby Israeli Jews took over Palestine to begin with as the British withdrew, resulting in over 700,000 Palestinians fleeing their homes or being expelled (read up on the Nakba). That's the root cause of why the WB and Gaza are occupied and the ongoing conflict.

> Calling it occupied is like calling parts of Poland and France occupied because Germany started a war in 1967 and lost, losing territory.

very false equivalency

▲nailer 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲insane_dreamer 4 days ago | parent [-]

Sorry but your response is a grave distortion of what happened in 1948.

And saying there is no occupation is also completely false.

But you’re clearly not interested in facts so no point in arguing further.

▲nailer 4 days ago | parent [-]

Britain partitioning Palestine into Jordan, the Arab state and the Jewish state is universally accepted history. You can confirm it at any source you like.

The Arab league attacking Israel in 1948 is also universally accepted matter of history. You can also confirm it from any source you like.

▲cwkoss 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Propaganda nonsense.

- that article is nearly a year old.

- Israel grossly over counts who is Hamas.

- Lancets July estimate was 200k dead. If 17k Hamas have died AND we exclude all civilians that have been killed since July, that's still 10 dead civilians for every legitimate target - horrible and despicable

▲pyuser583 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲RIMR 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

[flagged]

▲Powdering7082 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_war_crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

One side committing war crimes does not mean the other doesn't as well

▲kelnos 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲briandear 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

[flagged]

▲TheGuyWhoCodes 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲zdragnar 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲yieldcrv 4 days ago | parent [-]

ya’ll are weird for saying that someone rejecting a unilateral offer imposed on them is consent to their fate

i never see that on any other topic

▲zdragnar 4 days ago | parent [-]

The person I replied to claimed that the Palestinians had no say in Hamas's rule. That is quite contrary to reality.

▲yieldcrv 4 days ago | parent [-]

okay, but they are victims to it either way and its disingenuous to aim to invalidate and discredit that

Hamas won an election by mere plurality in 2006, against an incompetent Fatah

Which means not even a majority of the voting population voted for them

Over 50% of Gaza is children

The last vote was 18 years ago

so over 50% of Gaza has never seen an election and had no say in Hamas rule

of the remaining 50%, even if 100% of that population voted, less than 50% of them voted for Hamas

so in the best case scenario, 20% of Gaza voted for Hamas. but of course its way less than that because not 100% of adults voted

they are all victims of an autocratic regime where going against Hamas is death

going too close to the walls during even peacetime is death by the Israelis

and we’re supposed to smugly justify collective punishment on the idea that the current population has a real choice in the matter?

that lacks emotional intelligence

▲tzs 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Israel has not applied to be a member of the ICC so anything Israel does or does not do is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the ICC should admit or have admitted anyone else.

PS: I don't understand why this is controversial (which I infer that it is watching its points rapidly fluctuate).

The ICC exists to enforce certain international criminal law.

Someone suggested that intending to abide by those laws should be a requirement for admissions to the ICC. This seems like a pretty common sense approach. They also pointed out that the leaders in Gaza do not abide by those laws, and that this would have been a good reason for the ICC to not accept their application for admission.

Several people then pointed out that Israel also does not abide by those laws. My point is that this is a reason to reject Israel if they ever apply to join the ICC. When anyone applies to join the ICC it should be what they do that matters, not what others do.

▲insane_dreamer 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

And Israel has proven it doesn't either. Not sure what the point is here?

▲tzs 4 days ago | parent [-]

You asked, referring to Palestine's admission to the ICC:

> good for them; is there some reason they shouldn't have?

Their point is that the ICC should only be admitting those who intend to abide by the rules that ICC exists to enforce. Since it was Palestine's admission you asked about their answer referred to Palestine leaders' intentions with regard to those rules.

That Israel also doesn't abide by those rules is not relevant to the question you asked. It would be relevant if the question was whether or not Israel should be admitted to the ICC (and Palestinian lack of abiding by those rules would be irrelevant to that question).