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And the only counterweight for a person accused of genocide who is claiming they haven't committed war crimes or genocide, while they call this action "antisemetic" - the only way to determine if they are being genuine in claim it is antisemitism or political-manipulation (demonization) tool is to go to court and see all of the evidence presented.

Either 40,000+ people dead or seemingly nearly all Palestinian's civilian infrastructure being destroyed, both warrant being witnessed and investigated by the international community with a fine tooth comb, no?

The ICC isn't some amateur city court in some backwaters country, it is the current epitome and evolutionary state from effort and passion of humanity towards holding the line for justice.

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bawolff 5 days ago | parent [-]

> And the only counterweight for a person accused of genocide

The ICC has not accused anyone of genocide. It does have juridsiction over personal criminal responsibility for gdnocide, but so far, nothing on that front has been mentioned.

South africa is suing israel at the icj alleging state responsibility for genocide, however that is different from personal responsibility, and different standards of evidence and procedures apply. Its also a totally separate court system.

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loceng 5 days ago | parent [-]

Straw man argument. I didn't make the claim the ICC accused the ICC of genocide, however Netanyahu is now at minimum now officially wanted for war crimes.

ICC and ICJ are different, yes.

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bawolff 4 days ago | parent [-]

Well when you say "person accused of genocide" in the context of a warrant from a court that has juridsiction over personal responsibility for genocide, its not a leap to assume that is what you meant.

However if you didn't mean that, what did you mean by "person accused of genocide"? Who is accusing them? You personally?

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loceng 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting turn of phrase you used - it is in fact a leap, as you're making assumption you put forward as fact in your mind; how often do you do that?

Countless people are accusing him of genocide, including the ICC, and it certainly looks like a genocide by me; the problem with this discussion is no one defending the side accused of genocide will actually get into details of defining what could actually constitute genocide - so keeping it up in the air vague, which then allows them to not actually stand for it or against it - because there's nothing defined; most people have a wrong legal definition in their head for what constitutes genocide as well.

Personally yes, from what I have seen, the rhetoric from high up Israeli politicians and government officials, I would argue it's genocide.

The ICF has concluded officially as well that it is apartheid - and that those itnernational rules apply to Israel.

	▲	bawolff 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		> Interesting turn of phrase you used - it is in fact a leap, as you're making assumption you put forward as fact in your mind; how often do you do that? Well if you wrote clearly we wouldn't have this issue. > Countless people are accusing him of genocide, including the ICC The ICC explicitly have not. Perhaps they might in the future, but genocide was not one of the charges. If the icc prosecutor believes he has evidence of genocide occuring he has the authority to request a warrant for it (or request the existing warrant be amended) As for others, well the icc is basically the only court with competent juridsiction (technically a domestic israel court would also, but it seems pretty unlikely at this point that the israeli gov would arrest their own PM for genocide). I dont find random people very meaningful compared to charges at court where evidence actually has to be presented. > the problem with this discussion is no one defending the side accused of genocide will actually get into details of defining what could actually constitute genocide The rome statue defines genocide which would be the definition used by the ICC. It is the same as how the genocide convention defines it which is essentially the official definition. There is case law on how to specificly interpret the definition. Genocide is not a new concept at this point, and there exists people who have been tried for genocide in the past which has generated case law. > most people have a wrong legal definition in their head for what constitutes genocide as well. Yes, i agree that is an issue. However just because people have wrong beliefs does not mean the crime is undefined. > The ICF has concluded officially as well that it is apartheid I assume you mean ICJ here? They did not conclude that. They concluded that israel violated "Article 3 of CERD". Article 3 includes apartheid but it also includes other things. The ICJ did not specify which part of article 3 israel violated. (Obviously pretty bad either way)

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beepbooptheory 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

So what do you want to get across here? Is it just policing the referent? You do understand that we are not in court right now, right?

What did you even hope to get across here?

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bawolff 4 days ago | parent [-]

I'm trying to assert that neither Netanyahu or Gallant are currently facing charges of genocide. They have not been charged with this crime by the ICC or any other court.

Genocide is a major crime. Whether or not someone is facing charges for it is a big deal. The facts matter.

	▲	beepbooptheory 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		The facts matter, I agree.