| You’re in a zero lot line flat and your neighbors house is on fire. I’d be pretty motivated to help out as well, but I don’t think I’d be quite so cavalier about not being on a wartime footing. Russia has shown repeatedly throughout history that it does not honor international agreements in good faith, and that it sees military adventurism as a legitimate way to expand its borders. After the dust settles on the Ukraine war, if Putin still has the capacity to wage war, he will not likely stop with Ukraine. It is by now obvious that a limited incursion into Poland, for example, will not spark a global thermonuclear war. Ukrainian suffering is both the litmus test and the vaccination against nuclear escalation that Putin needs to contemplate further expansion. Political alignments aside, if I were based in Europe I would be very, very concerned. |
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| ▲ | aguaviva 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a wildly unpopular opinion after 2022, but ... False. Ukraine not only has everything to do with Europe -- it is unequivocally European in culture, language, historical involvement and (to the extent that Russia is also considered to be unequivocally European) geography. It isn't something one can even have an opinion about. Any more than one can have an "opinion" about India being a part of Asia. | |
| ▲ | throwawaymaths 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, and Ukraine has steadily going down in corruption since Zelenskyy. So if you actually care about corruption and aren't a concern troll, you will want to encourage the current regime and not the reverse. | | |
| ▲ | valval 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Zelenskyy has stifled opposition and politically persecuted his enemies, actually. | | |
| ▲ | K0balt 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Your comment is pretty myopic considering the fact that Ukraine is in a state of martial emergency and is actively being invaded by a merciless and lawless regime. She is on a wartime footing, with her very existence as a country once again in jeopardy at the hands of a much more powerful, longtime aggressor. Realigning political positions in a way that keeps them firmly aligned with the martial interests of the state is expected and required. For better or for worse, Ukraines civil government is, for now, primarily a military organization as the country and its people are fighting for their lives. This is the one specific case where it is reasonable, just, and needed to require loyalty, focus, and vigor within an otherwise democratic system. There is a reason why martial law grants the president extraordinary powers. If Ukraine survives, she will have to sort out the return to normal democratic rule, but for now the government is at war. | | |
| ▲ | valval 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Don't worry about that, he's been doing it since his inauguration. If you think his actions played no part in this war coming to be, you've been informed a bit selectively. | | |
| ▲ | K0balt 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Frankly it would be shocking if there wasn’t some kind of fuckery afoot in any given Eastern European nation. But that in no way justifies this territory grab by Russia, or the invasion in 2014. Russia is clearly attempting to annex a neighboring country through military adventurism, and is doing so in contravention with all international law, and also in a way that is intentionally cruel and borderline genocidal. Russia has lost all legitimacy as a nation worthy of being taken seriously as a global citizen, and has reduced itself to a kleptocratic mad-dog rouge state. | | |
| ▲ | valval 3 days ago | parent [-] | | The propaganda has landed well on you, it seems. | | |
| ▲ | throwawaymaths 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | How can you be so certain it hasn't landed on YOU? After all I mentioned that corruption has gotten better and you responded with a cookie cutter response about authoritarianism, which is not necessarily the same as corruption. You've basically eaten Russian talking points and regurgitated them wholesale without even stopping to critically think about context. | |
| ▲ | K0balt 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not so much. I have personal involvement that informs my opinion. |
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| ▲ | concordDance 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Even Botswana and Zambia aren't in the same league: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-per-capita-worldbank?... | | |
| ▲ | valval 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Frankly Botswana is beating Ukraine in GDP and Zambia in perceived corruption. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Frankly Botswana is beating Ukraine in GDP Ukraine's GDP is close to 10x that of Botswana, and in the last year has grown 10 percent over that of 2022. | | |
| ▲ | valval 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Try GDP per capita PPP, the measure that matters for average living conditions | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 5 days ago | parent [-] | | When your first attempt at dropping a random statistic gets blown out of the water -- try shifting the goalposts. | | |
| ▲ | valval 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I bet you had to look it up as well. I bet you had to go out there, and confirm that Ukraine, a country with 15x the population of Botswana, does indeed have a higher GDP. To make your discussions easier and less embarrassing in the future, assume that 100 % of the time when someone speaks of GDP, they're speaking of GDP at purchasing power parity per capita. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Assume that 100 % of the time when someone speaks of GDP, they're speaking of GDP at purchasing power parity per capita. And you can assume that 100 % of the time when someone speaks of the size of their gas tank, they're really talking about MPG while in cruise mode. | | |
| ▲ | valval 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I’m serious. Please don’t assume anyone is ever speaking or absolute GDP unless they make it explicitly known. That would be utterly silly. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm serious, too. But given the wildly untenable opinion statement of yours that this now long-flagged thread started off with -- and the obvious irrelevance of any economic performance measures to the Russo-Ukraine conflict -- we see that the entire thread has been utterly silly, from the get-go. | | |
| ▲ | valval 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm a bit lazy to type right now so Claude can type the message in my stead: "
Think about comparing two families: the Smiths have 5 people and earn $100,000 per year, while Jones is just a couple earning $70,000. If you only looked at total household income, you'd think the Smiths were doing better. But when you realize the Smiths have to split that money five ways ($20,000 per person) while the Joneses get $35,000 each, the picture changes completely. That's exactly what happens when we compare countries by total GDP. China's total GDP might dwarf Denmark's, but China has to spread that wealth across 1.4 billion people, while Denmark only needs to support 6 million. It's like comparing a pizza between a huge family reunion and a dinner date - the total amount of pizza matters less than how many slices each person gets. This is why economists prefer to use GDP per capita - it's like looking at how much pizza each person at the table gets, rather than just admiring the size of the whole pie.
" I presented some hard to digest (for some) facts in my opening comment here. You'll only need to read European, Ukrainian, and Russian history for 30 minutes to know that. Of course you wouldn't, you're just a parrot repeating propaganda. You have no interest in the truth. | | |
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