> Be careful, Russia invests a lot in disinformation campaigns and spreading (conflicting, but that is part of their doctrine) narratives.

You may also want to be careful (or not):

- all countries engage in these things

- how things are seem like how they seem, but this is very often not the case...and rather than consciousness raising warnings for such situations, it very often does the opposite

As always, I recommend a meta-perspective on geopolitical stories, it is much more fun than being a Normative, poorly constrained imagination actor like the vast majority of people.

▲ exceptione 7 months ago | parent | next [-]

I certainly welcome critical thinking. How GOP got of the rails with the adventures of Bush Jr (War on Terror) is worthy of deep analysis. Backed by Russia, which might give you a pause.

Geopolitical affairs are indeed difficult to follow. It requires deep internal domain(s!) knowledge, which does not fit your average corporate media business model. The niche outlets that do have a capable editorial board are threatened by takeovers [1, 2] from the likes of Axel Springer [3]. 1 Billion USD for Politico. An idiotic sum for a buyer that small, Wikipedia might pique your interest [3]. That is not to say that Politico is useless now, but you can count on journalistic degradation over time.

But sweeping statements are not of help to get a sharper picture. Instead they risk promoting false equivalence and may turn participants(!) of democracies into passive nihilists. Which is precisely the aim of the foreign influence we are talking about.

___

1. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/axel-springer-politico-...

2. https://countercurrents.org/2021/09/a-right-wing-german-news...

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Springer_SE#Criticism

	▲	mistermann 7 months ago \| parent [-]
		Do you ever wonder why mainstream school curriculum doesn't include the discipline most suitable for navigating these waters: philosophy? And if you do now: do you wonder if this is 100% coincidence, or oversight? How often do you hear the idea even discussed, as compared to, say, how often we hear about "misinformation", and the need for more "critical thinking"? I am glad this situation has a substantial humorous aspect to it, otherwise I'd probably get stressed out about it.

▲ ImPostingOnHN 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> all countries engage in these things

The post you're responding to, already predicted and addressed this claim:

> Bothsidisms and False Equivalency are some of the common tools in muddying the information sphere.

▲ mistermann 7 months ago | parent | next [-]

This is a fine example of the finer grained details of the deceitfulness of the phenomenon.

I am glad that I find the mess you people have made of the world funny.

▲ snapcaster 7 months ago | parent | prev [-]

Right, but that quote is kind of dumb. It implies that disagreements or criticism of the US are coming from russian disinformation agents. You can see how that framing (even if true sometimes!) isn't productive to any kind of actual discussion right?

▲ ImPostingOnHN 7 months ago | parent [-]

> It implies that disagreements or criticism of the US are coming from russian disinformation agents

Does it? The post in question observed 2 things:

1. Russia invests a lot in disinformation campaigns and spreading (conflicting, but that is part of their doctrine) narratives.

2. Bothsidisms and False Equivalency are some of the common tools in muddying the information sphere.

Is your point of contention with the truthfulness of either of these observations, or with their proximity to each other?

▲ snapcaster 7 months ago | parent [-]

Yes obviously. it doesn't take much in the way of literacy to understand the point being made by putting those statements next to eachother. The point is to invalidate whatever criticism is being made of the imperium

	▲	mistermann 7 months ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Isn't it amazing how effective repetitive, rhetorical propaganda can be though? These techniques are hard-coded in literally millions of minds, and once an idea takes root it is very difficult to remove. One might think skill in logic would prevent such things, but I'd expect most of the HN crowd is well above average in logic, yet few can't avoid having their cognition controlled by these sorts of simple memes.
	▲	exceptione 7 months ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		`The point is to invalidate whatever criticism is being made of the imperium` Then you read something which has never been stated. The point is that in a democracy people need to be well informed to keep their "imperium" to account, but that precisely this point is the weak point because it is overrun by commercial interests and adversaries that are KNOWN to be poisoning the well even more. To the point that we see here some special takes that are boosted or crafted, just to get people like YOU and ME to repeat that. To craft such a take you don't even have to lie, you can take a (half) truth and meme your way to hide what should not be discussed. This just works and is far more effective than fighter jets pro ruble spend. The worrying things in the US should certainly be discussed, this is rather an understated point. In other comments I mentioned the war on terror for instance. For that, you are not served by simplistic sound bytes.

▲ coupdejarnac 7 months ago | parent | prev [-]

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