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nozzlegear 6 days ago

> Rural roads are often unpaved.

Like the other replies have indicated, I'm not so sure this is the case? I live in very rural northwest Iowa, and while there are certainly plenty of gravel roads around here, I'm only driving on them if I'm intentionally trying to go "off the beaten path." You'll take a gravel road if you live on a farm, or you're trying to get to somewhere secluded such as a lake, campground or maybe a county park; but (imo) it's rare for the average person to drive down a gravel road just going from Point A to Point B on their daily commute.

bluGill 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not sure we disagree. You use the gravel rural roads to get to the nearest paved road. So rarely are you going more than a few miles on gravel, then you hit a paved road which you travel for the many miles to where you are going. Most of the roads are still unpaved, but you spend most of your driving time on the paved roads.

rwiggins 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Errr, not in the rural area I grew up in. Gravel driveways are super common, gravel roads not so much.

To give some specifics: I only remember driving down an actual gravel road (like, for public use) a single time. In 18 years. Even my friends who lived >30min from the nearest "city" (~10k population) had paved roads all the way.

But that is just my own experience. Areas with a different climate or geography might be a totally different story. My hometown area is relatively flat, lots of farmland, and rarely gets severe winter weather.

tharkun__ 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

FWIW in non-rural Canada we sometimes have gravel roads in towns twice that 10k size and in the metro area of a multi million inhabitant city (of which there are not all that many in Canada :)).

Not saying it's common. I don't have to drive over one of those but I have had to when there was construction on our regular route. It's right off the main road leading into town from the highway.

CoffeeOnWrite 6 days ago | parent [-]

Here’s a house in San Francisco that’s on a dirt road: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UeLKZmXAcHUhTn848?g_st=com.google.ma...

htek 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What most people mean by gravel road is macadamized road, which is a gravel/aggregate material bound in crowned layers from larger rocks to smaller on top often by a tar or asphalt binder or at least through compaction. There are true gravel roads in some rural areas, but, thankfully, I've rarely encountered them.

nozzlegear 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Oh yes, my mistake, I was inferring the wrong conclusion from your first comment.

> Most of the roads are still unpaved, but you spend most of your driving time on the paved roads.

Yeah I definitely agree with that. I imagine if you were to look at my county's roads from a satellite, it'd be something like the (grid-shaped) veins of a leaf — the thick, prominent veins are the paved roads, providing the structure, while the thinner, branching veins are the gravel roads that run between them.

dboreham 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Montana here. Most of the dirt roads (county roads) have been paved in the 25 years I've been here however there are some left where you can drive 20 miles unpaved. Also recently in Iceland I found a few unpaved roads (or rather "the Google Lady" did. Sorry whichever rental company I used there..

eesmith 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"New Mexico has 25,000 miles of unpaved roads. Dirt, sand, clay, stone, and caliche constitute up to 75 percent of our roads." https://www.newmexicomagazine.org/blog/post/100th-anniversar...

"Santa Fe has a higher percentage of dirt roads than any other state capital in the nation. Unless they are well graded and graveled, avoid these unpaved roads when they are wet. The soil contains a lot of caliche, or clay, which gets very slick when mixed with water. During winter storms roads may be shut down entirely." - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/featu...

With Google Maps, the dirt road closest to the center of town that I found is Del Norte Lane, at about 1/2 mile, with more dirt roads just north of it.

Santa Fe also has a lot of multi-million dollar homes on dirt roads.

Santa Fe is a special place, and not indicative of "average".

dreamcompiler 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's also funny that the article calls New Mexico a "warm place" considering I had to plow a 2-foot accumulation of snow off my driveway a couple weeks ago. New Mexico's climate is neither warm nor cold but diverse.

5 days ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
dreamcompiler 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Santa Fe is weird this way because it's so old. Santa Fe is old by "old European city" standards; it's 166 years older than the United States. The roads downtown were originally burro paths.

eesmith 5 days ago | parent [-]

The roads downtown were laid out 1609-1610 by Pedro de Peralta and his surveyor[1], who followed the Roman grid plan designated for use by the New World settlements[2] albeit not to the same high standard, especially after the Pueblo Revolt[3]. In 1610 the area was not part of any Pueblo[4] and no previous burro-using settlement had been there.

[1] "He and his surveyor laid out the town, including the districts, house and garden plots and the Santa Fe Plaza for the government buildings. These included the governor's headquarters, government offices, a jail, arsenal and a chapel." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_de_Peralta

[2] "In 1513 the monarchs wrote out a set of guidelines that ordained the conduct of Spaniards in the New World as well as that of the Indians that they found there." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Colonial_architecture#...

[3] "These structures had been laid out around a street grid and series of plazas—a practice that had become a standard for new Spanish settlements in the Americas and Asia—yet their irregular rather than orthogonal alignment seemed disorderly to Domínguez [in 1776]. ... The employment of the grid in town layouts remained in use even when New Mexico became part of Mexico and the United States, only to be replaced by the cul-de-sac and other American suburban models of development since the 1950s." - https://sah-archipedia.org/essays/PF-01-ART004

[4] "The Tanoans and other Pueblo peoples settled along the Santa Fe River from the mid 11th to mid 12th centuries,[20] but had abandoned the site for at least 200 years by the time Spanish arrived in the early 17th century." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe,_New_Mexico

dullcrisp 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Do most people in rural areas not live on a farm? Excuse my ignorance but genuine question.

bluGill 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

That is a tricky question to answer. Farms need small towns scattered all over - that is where many of the teachers, accountants, mechanics, hired hands, other services, and owners of the stores that serve all of the above live. Often small towns have factories that are not farm related and those employees live someplace. Do you count those small towns as rural? Many of the above have also realized that they can buy some build a house on marginal farmland cheap and so live rural but they are working a small town job - they may have a few goats or something but it isn't how they earn their money - hard they farmers? There are also people who retire to the country, hunting cabins (not residents), camp grounds (the owner lives there), and other non-farmers living in rural areas. Parents generally transfer the farm to the kid who will inherit it over decades, and part of that is the parents move to a small house off the farm but still rural - are they living on a farm?

Depending on how you count the above you can say that most people in rural areas are not living on farms. Even if you don't count small towns residents, there are a lot of people who are not farmers living out there.

ssl-3 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The people of the United States are broadly free to build a home wherever they can afford to, comrade, including on land that would otherwise be used for farming.

(Actual answer: I know a bunch of people who live in houses in the middle of seemingly-nowhere in rural Ohio, and almost none of them farm anything at all. They just seem to like the space and the quiet and the desolate isolation.

The only farmer who I know is my parents' neighbor, who has a house few miles away from their place.)

amanaplanacanal 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Depends where you live. In my state you pretty much cannot build any kind of residence on land that is zoned for agriculture.

bluGill 6 days ago | parent [-]

Generally you are allowed on resident per 40 acres or something similar - farms are getting larger and that leaves plenty of land that doesn't have a house that could.

fragmede 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I like your version of America. Sadly, California's not that free. Some billionaire can't just buy up some land and just put in apartment/office/factory tower as they please, the local government and residents just aren't going to stand for that.

ssl-3 6 days ago | parent [-]

That billionaire can probably just buy up some land and put their house there, though, since "affordability" is not part of the equation.

(Some adjustments may have to be made, but that's only another also-irrelevant expense.)

thaumasiotes 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> That billionaire can probably just buy up some land and put their house there, though, since "affordability" is not part of the equation.

Not in California; we have an entire bureau, the Coastal Commission, that exists to prevent that very thing.

fragmede 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-07-22/silicon-... is what I'm referring to

ssl-3 5 days ago | parent [-]

> The people of the United States are broadly free to build a home

vs

> The tech billionaires backing a proposal to raise a brand-new city

---

I think I see where the disconnect here is: We seem to be talking about completely different things.

AngryData 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Certainly not. You will be lucky to find an area where 5% of the people living their are farmers or work on farms.

nozzlegear 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't have any real numbers to back this up, but I don't think so. Even in my quite rural area, most people live in towns despite the relatively vast, open farmland. My town's population is between 3-4000 people, but some are as small as 500. It'd take a lot of farms to spread all the people in my town out.

engineer_22 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

No, in fact, many rural areas are not economical for farming. But in those areas they may have other extractive industries to support a population.