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| ▲ | brazzy 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | German here. Yes, it seems pretty obvious these sanctions have harmed Russia more than Europe. Russia: inflation around 8-9%. EU: inflation around 2%. | | |
| ▲ | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | That's not a result of sanction, simply Russia spends 40% of its budget on the war, and Europe spends nothing. | |
| ▲ | suraci 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thank you for the information. I believe that only those who are there can truly describe the situation there, beyond what I read in the media Recently, a professor I know wrote an article about his impressions of Russia and Germany when he attended meetings in both countries. Can you help to check what he said? > Macroeconomic data indicates that the European economy is not doing well, but the economic conditions I experienced during my days in Berlin could be described as depression. What surprised me the most was that there were not many people or cars on the streets of Berlin during the daytime on weekdays. Berlin in early October is not yet cold, but the desolate feeling on the streets does not match the image of the capital of Europe's largest economy. Europe's inflation, which started later than in the United States, has also clearly hurt the lives of the people, which was my perception from conversations with taxi drivers during my rides. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway2037 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > the European economy
Any time you see "European" used in an argument... run away. Europe is a continent. It is huge and varied. There are 27 countries in the EU and further 23 more countries in the European continent. It is very, very hard to generalise about "Europe". Albania and Norway are both in Europe, and, yet, they could not be further apart in terms of human and economic development. | |
| ▲ | jyounker 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I live in Berlin. Judging Berlin by the traffic on the streets is silly. Berlin has the lowest car ownership of any Germany city. Part of that is the excellent public transit. Another part is the extensive network of bike paths (combined with flat topography). Trains run from 04:30-00:30 on weekdays. On weekends they run 24 hours a day.
During rush hour the trains come every five minutes, and the cars are standing room only. (I checked a couple of hours ago.) As for weekends, why would you drive a car to a beer garden when you can take BVG and talk with your friends on the way? [Also, Berlin in October is normally f*ing cold. This year was a freakish exception.] | |
| ▲ | brazzy 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, inflation was pretty high in 22 and 23, that hurt a lot of people. But his claim of a "desolate feeling on the streets" being an indication of "economic conditions ... could be described as depression" read like badly written propaganda. There's nothing to be checked there, just some vague feelings. Berlin isn't as crowded as he expected, so the only explanation is that nobody can afford a car and half the population is sitting at home wallowing in misery due to economic depression? Really? | |
| ▲ | suraci 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Also, here's the sections about Russia, hope any locals can help to check this > (In Vladivostok) War typically leads to a rise in prices. Several Russian sources have reported that compared to two and a half years ago, current prices have roughly doubled, and housing prices have also increased significantly. However, it is somewhat comforting that the wages of most people have also increased proportionally, so people's lives have not been greatly affected so far. The supply of goods on the market is still quite abundant. Due to financial sanctions from the US and Europe, as well as multinational corporations, many brands' products and services are no longer available in the Russian market. Nevertheless, this does not prevent Russian citizens from drinking cola or eating American fast food. It is said that these brands have localized, but the products remain essentially unchanged: for example, the taste of Russian cola is not significantly different from Coca-Cola, as they can purchase the concentrate from third countries and mix it themselves. > The official unemployment rate published by Russia is only 2%, and I believe this data is likely accurate. The reasons are not only because the war itself requires the hiring of a large number of young people, but also due to the wealth redistribution, increased consumption, and robust production that the war has brought about. Russia is a country with severe wealth disparity, where the lower classes traditionally lack money for consumption. This war has provided an opportunity for lower-income families to obtain cash flow: by sending their sons or husbands to the battlefield, families can receive a one-time subsidy of nearly 500,000 yuan. Even prisoners in jail can receive this benefit. This sum of money, equivalent to targeted transfer payments and proactive fiscal policies aimed at the poor, has given lower- and middle-income families a chance to gamble their lives for money. This has led to cases where some people join the military to escape punishment and receive subsidies, serve for a year, return home, and then reoffend and go to jail again, relying on a second enlistment to escape punishment and receive another subsidy. > The increased cash flow among the lower-income population has led to a surge in consumer demand, and the robust production of military goods has also stimulated employment, income, and consumption. While the products of military industry are indeed consumed on the battlefield, for the macroeconomy, what matters is the flow rather than the stock; production and consumption are meaningful in themselves. As for whether the produced goods are expended as shells and missiles on the battlefield or become paper wealth on the other side of the ocean as export commodities, there is no fundamental difference for the current macroeconomic operation. There are rumors circulating on Chinese self-media about how much the ruble has depreciated on the black market in Russia. I specifically went to restaurants and other consumer venues in Vladivostok to test for any significant difference between the official and black market exchange rates by using US dollars and Chinese yuan for payment. However, neither Russian-run nor Chinese-run restaurants offered discounts for payment in US dollars or Chinese yuan cash. This phenomenon is usually sufficient to debunk rumors about the Russian ruble black market. The current social mood in Russia is relatively stable, which may be due not only to a decent economic foundation but also to strict control over public opinion. According to our research feedback, even in private settings, if colleagues or neighbors make remarks against Putin or the war, and are reported, those who oppose the war or Putin may face legal troubles. | | |
| ▲ | actionfromafar 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Did the source also mention that the low unemployment is in no small part due to the would-be workforce going to the frontlines, and also a huge initial wave of emigration to other countries among those privileged enough to own a passport. | | |
| ▲ | pvaldes 5 days ago | parent [-] | | And a lot of them are killed, so can't occupy a job anymore |
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| ▲ | rksbank 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The professor is correct. |
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| ▲ | rksbank 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a European, I can say that the sanctions did harm European economies, which is reflected in various political Eu government crises. It is hard to know how much Russia has been harmed, because both sides probably exaggerate the figures. I wonder whether "more harm" is the right question. The question should be whether the sanctions have any impact on Russia's war economy, which they do not. If anything, they make Russia more independent and strengthen Russian ties with China and India. This is all to the detriment of the EU, the only one here who profits is the U.S. by making the EU more dependent. | | |
| ▲ | sekai 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > It is hard to know how much Russia has been harmed, because both sides probably exaggerate the figures. > The question should be whether the sanctions have any impact on Russia's war economy, which they do not Ruble is below a single penny. Interest rates are at 21%, highest since 2003. Inflation is out of control. > they make Russia more independent and strengthen Russian ties with China and India. ah, so that's why Putin went to North Korea to beg for troops and ammunition? | | |
| ▲ | thalsand 5 days ago | parent [-] | | According to the IWF, 2024 inflation is 7.9% and GDP growth 3.6%: https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/RUS Germany has 2.4% inflation and 0% growth: https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/DEU I do not believe the German inflation numbers. Health care got 30% more expensive with more hikes coming, rents are exploding, groceries are 20% higher since 2022. | | |
| ▲ | KingOfCoders 3 days ago | parent [-] | | My healthcare has not gotten up 30%. From my recent visits to Lidl, groceries have massively fallen in price. Last year my shopping bill was ~70 EUR, yesterday and the weeks before it is around ~50 EUR. I'd even say groceries are cheaper than before (eggs, oatmeal, apples,...). Energy prices in Germany with my provider have dropped two times in a row and I got a letter this week announcing a new drop in prices on the 1st of January 2025. The only thing that is too expensive is Döner. And here, several shops have closed to be replaced by new ones with lower prices, now that groceries (also frying oil) and energy are cheaper again. I don't know about the Russian GDP, one would assume the growth is mostly from increasing weapon production and from replacing Western imports with in-country production. I don't think Russia is spontanously more productive. Both do not make life easier for people. | | |
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| ▲ | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | These consumer side sanctions are idiotic. When a Russian buys a European beer, he spends money which goes from Russia to Europe, and in addition he damages his health. On the other side, Europe buys billions of dollars of oil and gas from Russia. That money goes in the opposite direction, from Europe to Russia, and is used toward soldier salaries, Iran drones and North Korean mercenaries. | | | |
| ▲ | haccount 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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