| ▲ | culopatin 5 hours ago |
| But evidently they don’t want to move to rural America. |
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| ▲ | pseudo0 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Rural Alaska... Just about the most inhospitable climate in the US, remote, and with a very high cost of living. Teachers can find work just about anywhere, they have little incentive to stay in Alaska. The solution for this is simple - pay them more. There are plenty of recently graduated teachers who would work in Alaska for a few years if it paid off their student loans or let them save up a down payment on a house. |
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| ▲ | tastyfreeze 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Alaska will already pay off loans for teachers that will teach in rural communities. My friend taught in Yakutat for 5 years to pay off loans before moving to a larger town. But Yakutat is well connected as far as rural towns go. They have jet service and a ferry in the summer. Not many takers to go live in a tribal town 200 miles up a river. | |
| ▲ | culopatin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And who pays that extra? Who are you taxing in the middle of nowhere? | | |
| ▲ | Analemma_ 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The Alaska Permanent Fund from their oil revenue is worth $90 billion and they send every resident an annual $1,000 check on top of heavily subsidized fuel. I think they can pay competitive teacher salaries. | | |
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| ▲ | bijowo1676 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | there is already a program like that, its been running for ages, its called PLSF. Still not enough teachers. https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation... People who critique H1B always seem to assume that people actually hiring for labor are much dumber than those bright commenters and haven't exhausted each and every other opportunity to find qualified people. No, you are not being smarter than lawmakers who enacted H1B program, and then refused to dismantle it at every opportunity to do so. You are not smarter than employers who have to hire via H1B and pay tens of thousands dollars to immigration lawyers for stupid paperwork. Most of the critique of H1B in this post is just bigoted, hateful, and uneducated rant | | |
| ▲ | dani__german an hour ago | parent [-] | | you said "smarter" in this comment when a more accurate term is "corrupt". Being unable to find a candidate for your given budget requires that you either increase the budgeted salary or decrease the requirements, and train on the job. If you cannot do either of these, your company MUST fail. It is inhumane to demolish the US working class by importing foreign scab labor. Too much labor supply (aka immigration) decreases fair market value for wages. That alone is more than enough justification for ending all immigration of any significant amount. Handwaving away significant issues as "bigotry, etc" is unhelpful to the discussion. We haven't even covered the impact on housing supply, as illustrated by Canada's insane valuations. | | |
| ▲ | Qworg 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | What are the knock on effects of lowering the total number of people/the velocity of money/the number of companies in America? Canada's housing supply cost issues are driven by a wide variety of factors, very little having to do with immigration and far more with a small number of wealthy families owning a huge amount of land and a larger number of wealthy people holding many homes. | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | OpenAI and Anthropic and others are paying millions to hire qualified people, yet they still have to hire H1Bs. Dont tell me there are no Americans willing to take a million dollar job and these foreigners are causing wage decreases, despite tech salaries showing only increasing trend. Theres never been a year when tech salaries have decreased, not in 2008, not in 2000, not in 2020. Its all hockey stick growth for tech people. Housing supply is blocked by American citizens, mostly boomers, who oppose any development and oppose public transit.
You cant blame foreigners for something that your fellow citizens are doing Re Canada: I believe there is strong money laundering money flow in Canadian RE that has nothing to do with immigration. Its all illicit money being laundered by Canadians themselves |
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| ▲ | jojobas 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Hardly an argument to import teachers on work visas. |
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| ▲ | bluegatty 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's literally exactly the argument. If teachers were underpaid - it would be a poor argument. But if there's an acute shortage of 'key' workers in jobs that require education, for jobs where wages are materially above market pricing - then this is where you want H1B type programs. The idea is that it should not harm the local market for labour, and it's usually not reasonable to expect market wages to be a radical departure from where they would be otherwise. Aka - if teachers are earning $80K on average, then it's not going to work out i some small towns need to pay $150K to bring people in from the city, it also creates problems for locals. Special worker programs can be well utilized here in the right circumstances. The 'bad' scenario is when labour market is flooded where those jobs would otherwise go to locals. Tata/Infosys (generic IT workers) are alone probably 80% of the problem. | | |
| ▲ | AngryData 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This would hold more weight if teachers in rural areas weren't getting paid less than half your thought experiment average. | | | |
| ▲ | jojobas 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Teachers are underpaid. No occupation paying under median wage in the area should be granted work visa. |
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| ▲ | culopatin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s a matter of incentives. The avg American grows up with certain “American dream” that clashes with that rural America life. There is no incentive to leave everything behind and go be basically alone. Immigrants have a “lower” baseline or just want the experience of being abroad, or are willing to put up with rural living because from wherever they are, it looks better. You’d have to entice a city teacher to move to rural America. You’ll say “pay them more”. But who are you taxing more? Because no one is happy when the gov starts looking at being more efficient and starts laying off some admin people either. | | |
| ▲ | jojobas 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Teachers were like 4% of all H1Bs. Using CS/AI H1B proceeds to increase pay to rural teachers more seems like a no-brainer. The current Alaskan teacher pay seems to be below median, which seems like an good threshold to disallow H1B workers altogether. | | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Have you considered the possibility that H1B teachers are simply better (at any price point) ? H1B proceeds go to fund USCIS and its staff, they do not go towards local school districts. This whole discussion is full of racists and haters who dont know anything about the subject beyond clickbait titles | | |
| ▲ | dani__german an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | "H1B teachers are simply better" Considering the overwhelming demographics of H1B visas are massively racially different from the US, this is Racism, pure and simple. This is the undercurrent of H1B immigration: people who harbor racism against the US's predominate demographic doing anything they can to scam the system and enrich themselves no matter the cost to others. | | | |
| ▲ | NoMoreNicksLeft 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Have you considered the possibility that H1B teachers are simply better (at any price point) ? That sounds sort of racist, actually. | | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It is not racist, but it is true. The Education major is one of the bottom majors, Americans with the lowest grades and lowest SAT scores go on to become public school teachers. and it is well known information among Americans themselves. https://x.com/marcportermagee/status/1954326425072546055/pho... https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2023-total-group-... The average SAT for Education majors: 1023
It’s ranked 24th, behind Communications (19th), Library Science (13th), and English (11th). The top major: Math.
while foreigners on H1B are top percentile in academic performance and scoring and generally H1B attract top 1% talent from the global talent pool, especially given there are only like 60k visas issued per year.People who look at the stats objectively should be the first ones to advocate for more H1B teachers, if that meant children would get dramatically better education | | |
| ▲ | annzabelle 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Someone has never had to clean up code written by WITCH H1Bs. | | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What this has to do with American public school teachers coming from the bottom of the barrel of talent pool ??? | | |
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| ▲ | Erem 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Americans are every race. How could it be racist? |
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| ▲ | riknos314 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are teaching and software engineering even job categories that overlap enough that they should compete for the same pool of visas? It seems to me things would be better if they were classified as different visa categories. |
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| ▲ | bijowo1676 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | so you want to leave rural children without teachers? | | |
| ▲ | SecretDreams 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the commenter is volunteering to go themselves. | |
| ▲ | jojobas 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I find your reference to "third worlders" a bit offensive and racist. "First worlders" (whatever that means for you) also do apply for H1B visas, just FYI. If you imply that teachers on visa are somehow inferior or worse then citizen teachers (non-existent btw since noone is volunteering for Alaska gig), you are either being terribly misinformed or just bigoted. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway85825 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | With foreign accents its often hard to understand what's being said, and harder when there's a whole class and the student doesnt want to be disruptive. | | |
| ▲ | SilverElfin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t find it hard to understand foreign accents of all kinds. Why do you? It seems like a basic part of English comprehension. Obviously large companies don’t have issues with their CEOs being Indians with accents. They’re speaking to their employees, board, and the public and it’s not an issue. | |
| ▲ | bijowo1676 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You are being bigoted or ignorant again. There is a whole meme of people with Indian accents, explaining things on YouTube, and Americans genuinely appreciating their lessons because American teachers with perfect English like yours have failed to explain the subject properly | | |
| ▲ | throwawaytea 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There's also a huge group of people that instantly click away from a video as soon as they hear an indian voice. They won't show up in the comments. | |
| ▲ | throwaway85825 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Again? I'm not the parent commentor. I find it harder to learn if I have to decipher the words not the content. This is true for lots of different accents. This is a common experience for those not overindexing on ethnonarcissism. |
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| ▲ | jojobas an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | India accounts for 70% of H1B against say UK, France or Japans 1% each. Alaskan school teachers are paid below Alaskan median wage. If you support importing workforce to be fill less-than-median-paying roles you haven't thought about it very well (chances are you never will). >racist bigoted These are not magic words that somehow make your argument sound. Delegating bringing up children to underpaid workers from foreign cultures, desperate enough to consider this deal an improvement, cannot end well. |
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