Remix.run Logo
JCTheDenthog 6 hours ago

Rigorous examinations for English fluency and for competency in their alleged field of expertise would be a good start. I have several H1B coworkers in the US who barely speak intelligible English, and who barely understand normal conversation let alone anything technical. A blatant example of this that I experienced recently being that several of them could not understand that just because a method in C# is asynchronous does not mean it executes out of order.

cguess 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is a hiring issue, not a legal one. The US has no official language, and no language tests, so requiring English in law would be dicey to put it mildly. What if I'm hiring someone specifically to work at a Spanish language news outlet?

JCTheDenthog 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>What if I'm hiring someone specifically to work at a Spanish language news outlet?

Having actually worked at a Spanish language news outlet before (1 of 4 tv and radio stations in the office I was doing IT help desk work in), I can tell you that every single employee spoke English somewhere on the level of very good to near native fluency. As it turns out, knowing English (or the native language of whatever country you're in) is an incredible value-multiplier for almost every job position imaginable.

As far as language issues at my current job goes, it turns out once you hire a manager that speaks both Hindi and English (or Marathi and English, or Bengali and English, you get the picture) it doesn't matter much if the H1Bs he hires barely speak English because he can just start shouting at them in Hindi if they don't understand (even if several native English speakers are in the meeting too).

cguess 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Again, this is a hiring issue, not a legal one. You want to make it against the law for your boss to hire bad managers?

dmix 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

svachalek 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The H-1B visa is specifically for hiring "highly specialized" workers. Lack of the supposed skills that let them across the border is in fact a legal issue.

bijowo1676 5 hours ago | parent [-]

H1Bs are not hired for their knowledge of english, however you can define it. They are hired for specialized occupational skills

naturalmovement 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Skills which, with very few exceptions, are conducted in English.

bijowo1676 5 hours ago | parent [-]

You don’t need to be Shakespeare to do specialized job that’s first

Second most visa applicants already get tested on their English skill when they apply for Visa, for example, universities require English proficiency for F1 visa using GRE exam

And why do you think you are better than an employer in assessing required English proficiency of an employee

NoMoreNicksLeft 4 hours ago | parent [-]

>for example, universities require English proficiency for F1 visa using GRE exam

Why would the universities fail them on these exams, when it would mean losing out on that sweet, sweet tuition money?

bijowo1676 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

gmueckl 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But Visa applications need to prove English proficiency already. So it's somehow neither here nor there.

pandaman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>and no language tests

English test is a requirement for naturalization, which is governed by the same INA, which governs H1B and other visas.

naturalmovement 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

EO 14224 designates English as the official language of the US.

generj 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Which is clearly illegal.

Congress would need to declare any official language(s). Moreover, by treaty and law (NALA of 1990) obligations to Native American tribes there must be more languages than merely English.

naturalmovement 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

cguess 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This one actually certainly is, it just hasn't shown up in court because no one's dumb enough to enforce it.

The Constitutional Convention discussed a national language at length in 1789, and adamantly didn't include a language requirement on purpose.

DANmode 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This is a hiring issue, not a legal one.

When the law specifically dictates stuff like the talent of the person, I’m not convinced you’re correct.

readthenotes1 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The US has an official language, and there are now language tests for some occupations

bee_rider 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The executive branch has been instructed to act like we have an official language, but Congress hasn’t passed any law on the matter.

panny 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>The US has no official language

Oh but it does. And it's English,

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/03/06/2025-03...

bee_rider 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That’s just an Executive Order. Executive Orders are instructions to the executive branch, not the country itself (obviously, the president doesn’t have that ability). Congress hasn’t passed a law establishing an official language in the US.

free652 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dont think an EO can do that, so at most just executive agencies. Meaning the 2 other branches can ignore it.

parrellel 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't believe Trump's wacko EOs are binding law. Like, the Gulf of Mexico is still the Gulf of Mexico. The DoD is still the DoD.

No reason to give the fascist LARPers the respect. Just don't give the poor clerk forced to regurgitate the junk a hard time.

newfriend 3 hours ago | parent [-]

or DACA?

parrellel 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Honestly, Executive Orders in general are dysfunctional cludge. I feel less bad about things like DACA, since that's trying to fix something broken instead of wrecking things for no useful reason (or acting to puff up a sick ego) ... but hell no, that should have been a proper law.

throwaway85825 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Any legal barrier will just be cheated around.

panny 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Rigorous examinations for English fluency and for competency in their alleged field of expertise would be a good start.

I have a good friend who came in as H1B and is now a citizen. I have also worked with many H1Bs who were absolutely terrible and definitely shouldn't be in the country. What I've noticed is that the key difference seems to be which country you are from. He is from a first world country with education standards. The ones who were no good came from the third world where fake diplomas are for sale cheap. It won't matter what qualifications we screen for if the third world happily prints up those fake qualifications for a small fee. I was sent so many candidates to interview who knew absolutely nothing, but they shamelessly put the proper keywords on their resume.

readthenotes1 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Many of the people I grew up with "barely speak intelligible English". Communication is important and the easiest way to fix that is to bring people from your linguistic group to be a coworker....

pastel8739 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I have several H1B coworkers in the US who barely speak intelligible English, and who barely understand normal conversation let alone anything technical.

English fluency is certainly not a requirement for fluency in any technical field. Perhaps you mean that they cannot understand _your_ descriptions of technical topics, though

JCTheDenthog 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Seeing as my Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Mexican, French Canadian, and Brazilian coworkers don't seem to have these issues with me I don't think the issue is with my explanations.

pastel8739 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Sorry I didn’t mean you specifically, rather you as an English speaker

sometimes_all 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Funny, when I was in the US, my Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Mexican, French, British, and 99% of the American coworkers had absolutely zero issues with my Indian accent, except that one American guy who would ask me to keep repeating even though the rest of the room had already understood and processed what I said.

The problem likely lies deeper than just the accents; and by the way, the English requirement (including a verbal test) is already set in place for most of the workers. The regular halfway-decent ones will likely already have TOEFL scores hovering around at minimum the high 100s, and in the non-university hiring pipelines I have seen, the English/ESL tests seem to be common if you are not from an English-speaking country, so if you are seeing people where nobody can understand what they are saying, you need to take a better look at your employer's hiring practices.