But in the past, you knew the codebase very well, and it was trivial to implement a fix and upgrade the software. Can the same be done with LLMs ? Well from what I see, it depends on your luck. But if the LLMs can't help you, then you gotta read the whole codebase that you've never read before and you quickly lose the initial benefits. I don't doubt someday we'll get there though.

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kenjackson 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've hit this in little bursts, but one thing I've found is that LLMs are really good at reasoning about their own code and helping me understand how to diagnose and make fixes.

I recently found some assembly source for some old C64 games and used an LLM to walk me through it (purely recreational). It was so good at it. If I was teaching a software engineering class, I'd have students use LLMs to do analysis of large code bases. One of the things we did in grad school was to go through gcc and contribute something to it. Man, that code was so complex and compilers are one of my specialties (at the time). I think having an LLM with me would have made the task 100x easier.

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devin 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Does that mean you don't think you learned anything valuable through the experience of working through this complexity yourself?

I'm not advocating for everyone to do all of their math on paper or something, but when I look back on the times I learned the most, it involved a level of focus and dedication that LLMs simply do not require. In fact, I think their default settings may unfortunately lead you toward shallow patterns of thought.

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theshrike79 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Learning things the hardest way possible isn't always the best way to learn.

In a language context: Immersion learning where you "live" the language, all media you consume is in that language and you just "get" it at some point, you get a feel for how the language flows and can interact using it.

vs. sitting in a class, going through all the weird ways French words conjugate and their completely bonkers number system. Then you get tested if you know the specific rule on how future tenses work.

Both will end up in the same place, but which one is better depends a lot on the end goal. Do you want to be able to manage day-to-day things in French or know the rules of the language and maybe speak it a bit?

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kenjackson 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldn't say there is no value to it, but I do feel like I learned more using LLMs as a companion than trying to figure everything out myself. And note, using an LLM doesn't mean that I don't think. It helps provide context and information that often would be time consuming to figure out, and I'm not sure if the time spent is proportional to the learning I'd get from it. Seeing that these memory locations mapped to sprites that then get mapped to those memory locations, which map to the video display -- are an example of things that might take a minute to explore to learn, but the LLM can tell me instantly.

So a combination of both is useful.

	▲	devin 13 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Hard to argue with such a pragmatic conclusion! I think the difficulty I have is that I don't think it's all that straightforward to assess how it is exactly that I came not just to _learn_, but to _understand_ things. As a result, I have low confidence in knowing which parts of my understanding were the result of different kinds of learning.

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kolinko 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'd say this is similar to working with assembly vs c++ vs python. Programming in python you learn less about low level architecture trivia than in assembly, but you learn way more in terms of high level understanding of issues.

When I had to deal with/patch complex c/c++ code, I rarely ever got a deep understanding of what the code did exactly - just barely enough to patch what was needed and move on. With help of LLMs it's easier to understand what the whole codebase is about.

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jazzyjackson 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If I haven't looked at my own code in 6 months it might as well have been written by someone else.

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kenjackson 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The most brilliant programmer I know is me three years ago. I look at code I wrote and I'm literally wondering "how did I figure out how to do that -- that makes no sense, but exactly what is needed!"

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claytongulick 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I had a funny example of that.

I had a question about how to do something in Django, and after googling found a good SO answer.

I read through it thinking about how much I appreciated the author's detailed explanation and answer.

When I looked at the author it was me from two years ago.

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psunavy03 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How can I learn this skill? Past Me is usually just this idiot who made work for Present Me.

	▲	kenjackson 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Turns out, that is also past me. In fact, often the incredible code that brilliant me wrote, which I don't understand now, is also the code that reckless me wrote that I now need to fix/add to -- and I have no idea where to start.

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bitwize 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wow. Lucky you. When I come across code I wrote months ago, usually I'm like "what kind of crack was I on when I wrote this?"

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matwood 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I always check git blame before ripping on some code I find...9/10 times I wrote it :o

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emodendroket 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They're better than one might expect at diagnosing issues from the error output or even just screenshots.