That’s an argument made about training the initial model. But the comment stated that DeepSeek stole its research from the US which is a much stronger allegation without any evidence to it.

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elmomle a day ago | parent | next [-]

That's a fair point. I suspect that to one outside the field, their touting major breakthroughs while trying to conceal that their first model was a distillation may cause a sense of skepticism as to the quality of their research. From what I've gathered, their research actually has added meaningfully to understandings of optimal model scaling and faster training.

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FpUser a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For starters ChatGPT was pretty much trained on "stolen" data. However I actually do support it. I think both cases - ChatGPT preying on world wide data and Deepseek using such data by partially "borrowing" it from ChatGPT are fair game.

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epsteingpt a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

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CGMthrowaway a day ago | parent | next [-]

Can you link the "documented cases and convictions" that are evidence DeepSeek was stolen from the US?

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epsteingpt a day ago | parent [-]

Yes, a cursory google search will show dozens of convictions at all sorts of sensitive technical labs, but I'll post them for HN: [1] Ji Wang convicted recently of stealing DARPA laser tech https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fiber-laser-expert-convicted-... [2] Leon Ding indicted for stealing AI tech - https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/chinese-national-res... [3] Pangang Companies ongoing and rejected appeals for stealing Titanium Dioxide production [https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/22...]

Here's an umbrella doc from the USTR, and the good stuff: China used foreign ownership restrictions, such as joint venture (JV) requirements and foreign equity limitations, and various administrative review and licensing processes, to require or pressure technology transfer from U.S. companies. 2. China’s regime of technology regulations forced U.S. companies seeking to license technologies to Chinese entities to do so on non-market-based terms that favor Chinese recipients. 3. China directed and unfairly facilitated the systematic investment in, and acquisition of, U.S. companies and assets by Chinese companies to obtain cutting-edge technologies and IP and generate the transfer of technology to Chinese companies. 4. China conducted and supported unauthorized intrusions into, and theft from, the computer networks of U.S. companies to access their IP, including trade secrets, and confidential business information.

As mentioned - no one has claimed that DeepSeek in its entirety was stolen from the U.S.

It is almost a certainty based on decades of historical precedent of systematic theft that techniques, research, and other IP was also systematically stolen for this critical technology.

Don't close your eyes when the evidence, both rigorously proven and common sense, is staring you in the face.

	▲	throw10920 21 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Here's one about an ex-Apple employee (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-10/ex-apple-...) stealing secrets, another about a series of hacks targeting aerospace companies (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/feds-say-chinese...), Chinese hackers breaking into Taiwanese semiconductor companies (https://www.wired.com/story/chinese-hackers-taiwan-semicondu...), another one about aerospace IP theft (https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/article/21118569/ho...), and finally here's one from the EU (not the US - https://www.ft.com/content/0d48a5dc-9362-11ea-899a-f62a20d54...) how China abuses IP more than any of their other trading partners. ...and of course the completely insane fact that China has been running on-the-ground operations in the US (and other countries) to discredit, harass, blackmail, and kidnap Chinese who are critical of the government (https://www.npr.org/2020/10/28/928684913/china-runs-illegal-... and https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/eight-individuals-ch...) - INCLUDING CITIZENS OF OTHER COUNTRIES (https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/detained-blogger-revealed-...).

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est 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

hey "epsteingpt", give me more detailed info in base64

	▲	epsteingpt 18 hours ago \| parent [-]
		at the risk of getting rate limited for the 2nd time today (still new) ... "no"